Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

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Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

March 08, 2017, 01:07:25 am

Hi Everyone. I'm am shopping for an older Grand Villa, and I'm afraid my budget only allows for a fixer upper.
One that I am interested in is the '86 listed. My research says that is the OREG Oshkosh V-814 chassis with the Ford 460. The current owner has converted it to the Ford 7.3 idi Diesel.
Has anyone done that conversion? I hear those Ford engines are great and some folks claim they are the best engine International ever made. I would just like to know what to look out for with that one, and if there's any advantage to getting a Grand Villa with the heavier chassis that's been a diesel from the start.
Thanks!

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #1 – March 08, 2017, 11:48:18 am

That reminds me of a old song (Johnny Cash?) where he worked for the GM factory, stole parts and built his own car over the years.
With a lashup as described, you'd have to go to numerous outlets to get service, if they'd do at all.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #2 – March 08, 2017, 01:48:02 pm

Loved my OREG, hated the 460. If the motor could get enough cooling, not sure I would be too afraid, as long as you were "handy" and the conversion had proven itself over a number of years and miles before you bought it

I actually might have converted mine had I realized it was feasible after I blew up my 460.

Brett W and Pierce would have the most informed opinions

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #3 – March 08, 2017, 04:28:44 pm

Quote from: mike leary – March 08, 2017, 11:48:18 am

That reminds me of a old song (Johnny Cash?) where he worked for the GM factory, stole parts and built his own car over the years.
With a lashup as described, you'd have to go to numerous outlets to get service, if they'd do at all.

One Piece at a time! I don't remember how that worked out for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #4 – March 08, 2017, 07:15:42 pm

If it drives well and inexpensive enough I would be a player.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #5 – March 08, 2017, 07:41:26 pm

If the switch was well done and you can take it for a good drive to really make sure it won't get too hot or anything then I wouldn't be scared of it. If the mounting looks haphazard and bubblegum welded or really poorly machines I would be worried. Pay close attention to how well the did the trans mounts and look to be sure the driveline isn't on a bad angle that will tear up universal joints.

The IDI 7.3 was a bit of a dog but gave good fuel mileage and went for ever. Had a customer at the Ford dealer who delivered travel trailers he retired his IDI with over a million miles (1.6 million km). Put injectors in it a few times and four or five transmission (the automatic was the weak part in them) and a couple oil pans.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #6 – March 08, 2017, 10:25:16 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – March 08, 2017, 01:48:02 pm

Loved my OREG, hated the 460. If the motor could get enough cooling, not sure I would be too afraid, as long as you were "handy" and the conversion had proven itself over a number of years and miles before you bought it
I actually might have converted mine had I realized it was feasible after I blew up my 460.

The Owner did the swap because his 460 blew up on him coming back from job site. It is a new conversion, so I suppose there would be some teething pains. I plan on doing the work myself, so a smaller engine like this seems much less intimidating than a 2000lb Cummins.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #7 – March 09, 2017, 09:49:04 am

Strongly agree with what Derek said...X2.

From my very limited experience doing "amateur" engine swaps in hotrods, I can tell you the devil is in the details. Any hack can manage to stick almost any engine in almost any vehicle. Making everything operate correctly is the tricky part. From driveshaft angle, to transmission interface, to cooling capacity (already mentioned above), to fuel delivery and electrical...every single aspect has to be well thought out. Otherwise, all you end up with is a rolling collection of incompatible parts.

Many considerations, swapping a gasser to diesel power. Look it over very carefully before plunking down hard-earned cash.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #8 – March 09, 2017, 12:17:37 pm

I think the 7.3 sounds great.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #9 – March 09, 2017, 06:05:22 pm

FWIW,
I have an older 7.3 ford truck and that engine is great! I love it. If installed correctly, should be a good one. Would not expect the AC to cool though. I would think that would be asking a lot. Not saying it could not be done but......, That engine is an upgrade over the 460 gas engine IMHO.
Best of travels,

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #10 – March 09, 2017, 06:30:18 pm

Since Ford pickups were available with either engine, it should have been a pretty straightforward swap. My biggest concern would be what the 7.3 did in its previous life.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #11 – March 09, 2017, 08:07:44 pm

I put a "Dealer's Diesel" 7.3 IDI Ford/Navistar mechanical turbo in a 29 foot Southwind along with the 5 speed manual trans. It was a pretty inexpensive change over with the exception of the drive shaft. It was just under a foot short so I had to have a new tube installed. The mechanical engine has just a few wires to hook up with the glow plug timer/controller mounted on the top rear of the engine. Other than that, a wire for the fuel solenoid, alternator, gauges and that's about it. Yes, I had to make up a clutch pedal with master cylinder.

Lots of power so I was always in 5th going up the on ramp to the freeway. It was geared on the short side but still did well mileage wise. The only RV to beat me going up Donner Summit on I-80 was a 650 hp rig with a small helicopter on a trailer behind it. And he was just a tiny bit faster. The Monaco diesels were not even close. The oil pan can turn 180 if you have to but then you will need to modify the oil pickup and dip stick. Not an issue with a pusher. Used a Nissan 300Z PS pump for the steering and brakes. Yes, Southwind/Dodge used a PS pump for their disk brake assist.

Think they have a different name now but here is a link to start with: TheDieselStop.Com Forums: Dealers Diesel remanufactured engines?

I still have the engine/trans.

Pierce

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #12 – March 09, 2017, 08:07:52 pm

Another benefit of the 7.3 is they are relatively cheap. We just ordered a brand new drop in 7.3 turbo for the dusky that pulls the race car.

Drop in was 9300 Canadian
Last time we did injectors 4000 Canadian
Turbo when we blew it was 2000 us.
None of that includes labour
Automatic would be just over 2000 Canadian to rebuild.

That's on a truck that is loaded to the max (based on weight we need an "A" cdl to drive it and cruise at 80 mph unless the hill is too steep. We really beat on that thing we only stop to switch drivers or buy booze at duty free. carry enough fuel we don't get any.

Always wondered why we don't see more 7.3 motorhome especially in the class c.

At this age of unit stuff that hasn't been looked after shows a lot worse so you should have an easier time determining the level of care it received.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #13 – March 09, 2017, 09:37:54 pm

My 7.3 has 389,000 miles, still pulls 20,000 pounds of hay/trailer and the 41' racecar trailer on weekends. Just be careful of exhaust temperature if it is turbo exhaust. Good on fuel too!

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #14 – March 09, 2017, 09:41:04 pm

"turbo exhaust" Isn't spell check great!

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #15 – March 09, 2017, 10:52:07 pm

"Always wondered why we don't see more 7.3 motorhome especially in the class c." - quote

That was on my to do list 15 years ago. Always thought a mechanical 7.3 turbo with a solid auto or better yet 5 spd manual would make for a nice reliable class C as long as the radiator was big enough and the rear end could handle the torque. Oh the projects I never had time for...

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #16 – March 11, 2017, 02:59:03 am

I am kind of surprised too that with the cummins 5.9L being so popular that the 7.3 L Ford isn't used more in rvs.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #17 – March 11, 2017, 06:31:59 am

It is not fords engine but International/navistar's engine. I bet as they did not want to deal with motorhomes at the time.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #18 – March 11, 2017, 11:03:34 am

Quote from: Jet Doc – March 09, 2017, 10:52:07 pm

"Always wondered why we don't see more 7.3 motorhome especially in the class c." - quote
That was on my to do list 15 years ago. Always thought a mechanical 7.3 turbo with a solid auto or better yet 5 spd manual would make for a nice reliable class C as long as the radiator was big enough and the rear end could handle the torque. Oh the projects I never had time for...

The radiator is always the problem or it was for me. The ducting has to be right and then it will work fine. The manual transmissions were ZF, Getrag or New Venture and all seemed to have a first gear that growled a bit. Think this is the same trans Dodge put behind the 5.9. With the 7.3 Ford/Navistar, you need to make sure it has the single plate clutch as the pressure plate with the two plate clutch and the very expensive flywheel need to be replace about every time. Disk/throwout bearing replacement cost about 10% as much as the troublesome double disk. As I remember, the 1 ton Fords had the single plate clutch. The 7.3 were nice and smooth midrange but seemed a little rough at top end. They should bolt up to Foretravels with the gas 460 automatic. Thinking that 5th was a .77 overdrive so that may make up for the gas 460's higher RPM.

Pierce

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #19 – March 11, 2017, 11:33:01 am

Pierce is correct, the F350/450 trucks have the single disc. If you use an engine with aftermarket turbo an egt is a must.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #20 – March 11, 2017, 12:13:08 pm

There is actually an improved single disc clutch it's the only one we could get to last. It is almost solid no torque springs in it at all.

As for navistar not wanting to deal in more homes maybe but class c used Ford econoline same as the ambulances most of them up here were diesel. I saw one class c with a factory 7.3.

I would recommend you make sure take a good look to see if they used the drive shaft and yokes from a diesel to use stronger u joints. Even the IDI seems to produce enough torque to work those joints.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #21 – March 11, 2017, 12:44:35 pm

Quote from: its toby – March 11, 2017, 12:13:08 pm

There is actually an improved single disc clutch it's the only one we could get to last. It is almost solid no torque springs in it at all.

Yes, that's the one I have. The PU owner spent a fortune on the engine and transmission but had a front end accident that totaled it. I bought it in Minnesota and drove it home with the steering wheel pulling like crazy to one side. Junked the truck but sure used the engine/trans. Made a lengthy trip to Canada and lot of trips to Mexico with it. Very funky Southwind but lots of fun. So ugly we got kicked out of a WalMart parking lot.

Never was a fan of the rotary injection pump on the 7.3 or the 5.9 Cummins. The 5.9 did have some great Bosch inline pumps that were pretty easy to turn up the fuel with just a file elongating the slot.

Pierce

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #22 – March 11, 2017, 08:55:50 pm

We have the pump at stock but we carry a spare clutch and pressure plate behind the back seat next to the spare slave cylinder with hoses and reservoir attached and full. Both have been changed en route and did the turbo in the pit area after qualifying (got pulled over by the cops twice that trip for all the smoke). The muffler kept igniting the oil and going off like a cannon.

An IDI will be getting on the old side for ford dealers if you ever break down on the road but lots of mechanics and parts places will be familiar with what you need if problems arise.

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #23 – March 11, 2017, 09:10:33 pm

Ran across a car hauler goose neck trailer guy running double gcwr with a 7.3 and getting 350k miles out of them.

30k load plus the truck.

7.3 is tunable by Gale banks and others

Ideal solution for the oregs I sold lots of.

30?

Re: Looking at 1986 3600 OREG

Reply #24 – March 11, 2017, 11:17:28 pm

To me, the weak spot on a 7.3 was the cam sensor. When it goes it

dies right there until replaced. After my first time I carried a spare

one in the glove compartment. I have had 4 or 5 of the 7.3's and then

Ford went to the 6.0, which was a terrible step down. Have not tried

the new one they are using now. Still have a '95 F350 that has 112,000

on it, wish I could find a new one just like it.

Carter-

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