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Air leveling question

I read all the posts about problems with air leveling and wonder how many members have the same good luck as me? My coach stays level for months even though my tanks eventually leak to 0. When I park it I auto level and then turn it off. Months later I can turn the key on and hit the level button once and all 4 lights are still on and the coach is still level. Is this unusual or do we only post problems?
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #1
I read all the posts about problems with air leveling and wonder how many members have the same good luck as me? My coach stays level for months even though my tanks eventually leak to 0. When I park it I auto level and then turn it off. Months later I can turn the key on and hit the level button once and all 4 lights are still on and the coach is still level. Is this unusual or do we only post problems?
Lucky guy
Chris and Tammy White  CDA Idaho
Previous owners 1997 U295 36' 3126 Cat 300 HP Build # 4998
Former Foretravel tech & RVIA certified tech
Former owner Custom Satellite home/RV satellites 
Former owner Vans LTD  van conversions
Unemployed, panhandler, drag racer NHRA #6348

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #2
I read all the posts about problems with air leveling and wonder how many members have the same good luck as me? My coach stays level for months even though my tanks eventually leak to 0. When I park it I auto level and then turn it off. Months later I can turn the key on and hit the level button once and all 4 lights are still on and the coach is still level. Is this unusual or do we only post problems?

Once we chased down the leaks and replaced a bunch of fittings (and the air bags) our 2003 was the same - rock solid for months.  Took us years to get there, but we did it.

I think it's the nature to post of problems and solutions since they help others (or are requests for help).  When things are working, we're all too busy enjoying things to post about what isn't broken  :D
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #3
My leveling was rock solid even before all the work on the air system.  Difference now is the air is dry, leak down rate on the front and rear tanks is super slow (they hold air for I'm not sure how long, but way more than a week), and the aux compressor runs less frequently.
Mark Duckworth
2003 U320 4220
Build 6199, Motorcade 17971

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #4
My leveling was rock solid even before all the work on the air system.  Difference now is the air is dry, leak down rate on the front and rear tanks is super slow (they hold air for I'm not sure how long, but way more than a week), and the aux compressor runs less frequently.
That will be one of my winter projects to stop the leaks in the main air system. I know where some of them are and because it takes 4 days to get down below 60 psi I have been putting it off. Thanks to you Mark I will start by building one tank at a time and then R&R them.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #5
Check the step cylinders, always missed because they are hidden
Chris and Tammy White  CDA Idaho
Previous owners 1997 U295 36' 3126 Cat 300 HP Build # 4998
Former Foretravel tech & RVIA certified tech
Former owner Custom Satellite home/RV satellites 
Former owner Vans LTD  van conversions
Unemployed, panhandler, drag racer NHRA #6348

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #6
That will be one of my winter projects to stop the leaks in the main air system. I know where some of them are and because it takes 4 days to get down below 60 psi I have been putting it off. Thanks to you Mark I will start by building one tank at a time and then R&R them.
How do you plan to clean/treat the inside of the tanks?
Mark Duckworth
2003 U320 4220
Build 6199, Motorcade 17971

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #7
My coach leaks down in a couple of days, but it stays level. The next time we move I'm going to measure the distance from each tire to the floor above it and see if it stays the same over time. It seems to me that the coach seems to "settle" over a period of several days, but it always stays level. I have heard the aux compressor run, but that is very rare. As long as the coach stays level I'm happy.

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #8
We are on the rock solid side. We have been setting for about 7 weeks with the system off and we have no sag. We (used in the singular form of Mike) had to fix some leaks shortly after we bought this coach, after that all that is done is servicing the 6 packs ever so often.

Pamela
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #9
We are on the rock solid side. We have been setting for about 7 weeks with the system off and we have no sag. We (used in the singular form of Mike) had to fix some leaks shortly after we bought this coach, after that all that is done is servicing the 6 packs ever so often.

Pamela
What's involved in servicing 6-packs?
Mark Duckworth
2003 U320 4220
Build 6199, Motorcade 17971

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #10
How do you plan to clean/treat the inside of the tanks?
I have a friend who owns a radiator shop. I will get some of his acid solution and slosh it around in the tanks that show any issues. Will use a bore gauge to check inside them. The fittings going in the tanks all have small leaks which make fuzz with leak check solution.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #11
Fuzz?
Mark Duckworth
2003 U320 4220
Build 6199, Motorcade 17971

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #12
I guess I need a pic to show what fuzz is. The bubbles are so small they don't look like bubbles at all just white fuzz.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #13
Rock solid here, as long as I turn the system off.  Another matter altogether if the system is kept on.  Walking around the coach and phase of the moon cause it to occasionally let some air out, and after doing that enough times, the compressor needs to run to put some air back.  So I just keep it off while sitting.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #14
Mark, servicing the 6 packs is not hard just dammed awkward to say the least. They are usually at the top of the frame, just below the floor underside and the best way I have found is to remove the 2 mounting bolts for the alumn plate and cut the ties on wires etc so the whole block comes down to an acceptable working location. For me I can stand under in the Pit but for all else you are sitting or lying down.
Make a sketch of the layout and mark each wire and solenoid that will come off each of them as you HAVE to put the correct one back to the same place or lots of fun after. Do the same for the air lines, marking line and location of corresponding valve. There are markings on air lines and stamped #s on block but I like using felt marking pens. Take all wiring (once marked) off and the elec' solenoid that comes with wires. Now you can remove all of the valves at once if you want to get to a better working place. Simple to remove each one and replace the parts and O rings. Clean the inside seatings etc and rebuild. Replacing is of course a reverse of removing and make sure that elec and air goes back to original position.
One caveat, for tags they are a bit bigger openings for faster flow of air so make sure they go back to the right ones and of course air etc  back as before.
Actually very simple if you remember the golden rule- put it all back to original format and you will not have any problems.
JohnH
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #15
Tom, the moderator of the Newell Forum, puts together rebuild kits and sells them to Newell and Foretravel owners. Do a search and you will find his e-mail address.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #16
Mark,
They get pulled down and get a general cleaning.
New "O" rings.
Check coils resistance.
Check plunger seats
      I do break from the rest here and get my plungers from Valve Wizard | Peter Paul have used these people for years before I retired.
Check the internal air galley springs for breakage.
Test pressure switches for proper operation.
Most important thing make sure the exhaust ports aren't clogged.
      (mud/dirt daubers love those little exhaust ports)  I have even tried to put a filter in the port but it restricts the flow also and you get slower reaction which can result in broken windshield.

Member Chuck did a real good thread with pictures on what I have been doing. He is way better at explaining things than I am with his show and tell ability. Working On My Six Pack

Like others have said it isn't that big of job after you get the six packs to the work bench.

Pamela & Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #17
If new members are interested in the history of our relationship with Tom McCloud, try reading through the thread linked below, and the links to other threads contained therein.  Then you will be up to speed and can decide if you need to order some rebuild kits.

Replica HWH Plungers Redux

OR, if you already know everything you need to know, just send a PM to Tom with your request.  He'll get back to you with pricing and details.

http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4660
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #18
Mine stays rock solid. Of course, I have eight safety blocks in place!
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #19
Mine stays rock solid. Of course, I have eight safety blocks in place!
jor
But are you level?
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #20
I was outside this morning when the system decided to relevel. It releases air on the high side, so that's why the coach seems to sink over time but remains level. Of course, once the coach is down to being on a tire that corner can't go down any more, so the compressor will have to run to raise the low side.

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #21
Quote
But are you level?

levelish...

jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #22
That's the reason I don't auto level, it can go down on the frame, this puts stress on my windshield. I go to manual level, works better for me .
George Ray 1992 U280 40'

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #23
That's the reason I don't auto level, it can go down on the frame, this puts stress on my windshield. I go to manual level, works better for me .
If you prefer manual leveling (some members do) and are happy doing it that way, then that's all that matters.

BUT, for the benefit of our recent members who may be new to "auto leveling", I would like to point out that the HWH automatic leveling system is designed so it should not twist the frame or stress the windshield.  This assumes that the leveling system is working properly, and that the two 10 psi pressure switches on the front 6-pack manifold are functioning correctly.

IF the above assumptions are true, then the HWH auto leveling system will do the following:

1.  It will attempt to level the coach by releasing air from the appropriate bags until level.

2.  If releasing air from either of the front corners results in air pressure in the bags dipping below 10 psi, then air release from the opposite front corner bags will be inhibited.

3.  If at that point the coach is not level, then the system will add air (using the aux compressor if required) to the appropriate bags until level is achieved, or until it gives up and the "EXCESS SLOPE" light comes on.

Since the HWH system stops lowering the front of the coach as soon as one (front corner) air bag pair is almost empty (i.e. on the mechanical stops), the coach frame should never be subject to any twisting force, and the windshield panels (especially on the GVs) should not suffer from any undue stress.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Air leveling question

Reply #24
  This assumes that the leveling system is working properly, and that the two 10 psi pressure switches on the front 6-pack manifold are functioning correctly.

IF the above assumptions are true, then the HWH auto leveling system will do the following:

1.  It will attempt to level the coach by releasing air from the appropriate bags until level.

2.  If releasing air from either of the front corners results in air pressure in the bags dipping below 10 psi, then air release from the opposite front corner bags will be inhibited.

3.  If at that point the coach is not level, then the system will add air (using the aux compressor) to the appropriate bags until level is achieved, or until it gives up and the "EXCESS SLOPE" light comes on.

Question.... where is the sensor that tells the 12v air compressor to turn on and add air?
Once in a while the 12 v will add air to the whole system (sometimes it does but most times it does not), but not for leveling.

Ours never has worked even tho MOT & OTM both have worked on the system to fix this issue. ie: 12v adding air to level
'02 40' U320t  4010WTFS Build 6036 1 slide
Motorcade # 17841
SKP 151920
Retired truck driver
 5 million miler
Still have itchy feet for travel