AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

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AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

November 14, 2017, 12:03:27 am

We are in Springfield Oregon (by Eugene) having a AM Solar install done. Today is day one. Note: On our previous coach I self installed 300 watts of solar using AM Solar products. I still had a house then, and coach was in side yard. As Full-timers, I wanted to hire out this time.

- 3 new Lifeline AGM 8Ds (current are Deka AGM 8Ds from May 2013 and probably still fine. But with them very heavy and in middle of coach I'm just going to get it done now versus a hassle later)
-- Having them evaluate the way the 3 8Ds are cabled - determine if improvement possible.

- 7 each 180 watt panels (1260 watts total theoretical max). Arranged so I can still walk from rear ladder to front of coach for maintenance/cleaning. Room left to easily add one more panel in future if desired. I'm sizing the controller for that capability.
-- We plan to never tilt the panels. I'd rather add panels then deal with tilting.

- Victron MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50 120V VE.Bus Inverter/Charger Steady State: 2400W, Surge: 6000W. 120 amp charging max
-- Currently 3/O wiring with existing inverter, adding an additional 3/O or 4/O cable run for surge capacity of the Victron

- Solar controller is Victron BlueSolar Smart MPPT 150/100-Tr (100Amp capable) https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-SmartSolar-charge-controller-MPPT-150-85-&-150-100-EN.pdf

- Victron Color Control Monitor Kit and WiFi module added as well

- Victron Battery Monitor BMV-712 Smart with temp sensor added

- Misc wiring, cabling, lugs, fuse, switch, combiner box, etc.

They are doing the wiring run as I anticipated and requested: Down the fridge chimney, behind kitchen drawers, into battery compartment (or bay next to it). Monitors to be above microwave which is next to the fridge. They are saying Thursday completion, but depending on what else they have going I expect early delivery is "possible" (though not mentioned). Another large pusher came in some time in late morning for new batteries and solar addition to existing system. They may have another coach after that.

This is a big buck install. We had money come in we had not anticipated, and 30% of total cost will be a tax credit. With the 30 percent tax credit, that makes total cost 70% of total over time. I had originally anticipated a self install of 640 watts, using current inverter and batteries, in order to reduce the outlay. I was going to do that by renting a lot at the Escapees Co-op in Sutherlin OR for one month. With the extra funds and tax credit, we decided to hire out a large complete install with AM Solar instead.

For more simplicity, we are not changing existing auto gen start, and not removing one of the two ATS to use the inverter bypass and boost capability (due to additional 110 cabling runs that would require).

We full time with 3 cats. Local motels have check in times of 4 PM. Due to this, we parked the coach behind AM Solar Sunday afternoon and moved into the Village Inn 1.4 miles from AM Solar in Springfield. AM Solar has a corporate rate with them of $79 per night with small included breakfast bar from 6 am to 10 am. Small fridge and microwave in each room. $25 total additional per night for pets (if any). Only ground floor rooms are pet rooms.

This is an aging motel, but close to AM Solar and shopping/restaurants, allows pets, and is one of the lower priced motels (for ones that allow pets). We stayed here one night 2-3 weeks ago when we had the bedroom slide bladder replaced at Oregon MotorCoach. Last time we were in a room that had a exterior staircase attached to the outer wall. That was very noisy. This time we requested a room away from the stairs and it's pretty quiet. King bed rooms and 2 queen bed rooms are the same price. Water from the spigots has some yellowish tinge on occasion, so we bought bottled water to drink while we are here.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #1 – November 14, 2017, 08:12:05 am

Nice write up.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #2 – November 14, 2017, 08:32:47 am

Dan,

I'm sure you won't regret letting the excellent AM Solar crew do the heavy lifting. They are a first class operation. We went through the exact same program two years ago. Same time frame, stayed in the same motel (agree - it's not the Ritz, but it serves the purpose). We arrived on a Monday afternoon, and they finished our job on the following Friday afternoon. They invited us to park behind the building Fri. night, so we could check everything out, and resolve any issues the next morning. No issues to resolve!

PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Our system has been 100% reliable and trouble-free for 2 years. I have no doubt it will stay that way. You pay a premium for the work done at AM Solar, but in this case I believe it is money well spent. The 30% tax credit is a nice little perk - the gift that keeps on giving. It took us the last two years (of paying zero federal income tax) to use it up, but now it's gone.

Enjoy your stay in Eugene - we did. If you want to test your new system in "dry camp" mode, you can stay two nights for free in the parking lot at the Valley River Center shopping mall. It's a easy drive just a few minutes down the road from Springfield. Very nice place to park for a couple nights. It is well lighted and quiet at night, with 24-hour security patrol. When you arrive, drive around behind the Mall to the large NW parking area between the mall and the river. The rent-a-cops will stop by to check you in, and point you to the best place to park. They are very friendly. If you want some exercise, there is a nice bike & jog path that runs along the edge of the Willamette river, right next to the mall parking lot.

RV Friendly Mall in Eugene, OR

PS: If it happens to be a football weekend with the Ducks at home, you can expect the mall parking lot to be crowded with RVers!

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #3 – November 14, 2017, 11:22:24 am

We just dry-camped for six days at Mammoth Cave National Park with our 1920 watt solar installation, where trees partially blocked the sun. We were able to put about 2500 watt hours into our lithium batteries per day, enough to keep the inverter on 24 hours per day. No generator was needed. You were wise to get more solar. With lead batteries, you will still want to top them off with the generator before retiring for the night.

Can I be nosey and ask, hypothetically, how much an installation like yours costs?

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #4 – November 14, 2017, 11:48:11 am

We dry camp a bunch, with 840 watts and with 6 or 7 hours of sun we never run the generator. We use a small inverter (1000w ps) for the entertainment center and charging electronic devices. I would like to have one more 420w panel for the winter mos. 1900+ watts of solar is a bunch-nice!

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #5 – November 14, 2017, 12:14:20 pm

I went with 1260 watts because we have a residential fridge and I use a CPAP machine. The inverter will be on 24/7. I have no plan to add smaller inverters for dedicated use. I will however want to add a small UPS, just for the satellite receiver (to keep connected when ATS switches from generator runs on/off).

We had 300 watts Solar on our Bluebird. We always fired the generator for microwave, wife's hair drier, and to add amps to the battery bank quicker.

I anticipate "perhaps" one hour per day or twice per day of generator use to drive amps into the battery bank depending on how it all works out and available sunlight. Our primary dry camping is "usually" at Sigsbee Naval Air Station Key West during winter months.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #6 – November 14, 2017, 12:50:30 pm

May I add Dan and his wife are great people, and their coach is in perfect condition.
Not too much of a surprise, since the prior owners were Steve and Michelle Cook.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #7 – November 14, 2017, 01:13:00 pm

I plan on a res frig at some point as well, will likely need that additional panel. Yours is definitely a nice setup. We spend the cool mos dry camping in Az, Nv and Utah.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #8 – November 14, 2017, 01:57:53 pm

Have been using a Bestek 300 watt pure sine wave inverter for my sat and tv for about a week, working great. I was suspicious of the quality of a pure sine wave inverter for $42 [ way cheaper than most]. Nice thing is that with tv and sat receiver on s/b, inverter is only drawing about 14 watts total, so I just leave it on all the time to save tv and sat settings. Big inverter off unless using microwave or coffee pot. I am getting by with 960 watts and no generator or sp.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #9 – November 14, 2017, 02:00:25 pm

Dan, you might want to look at these small UPS boxes.
Amazon.com: CyberPower CP350SLG Standby UPS System, 350VA/255W, 6 Outlets,...

This is the one I was using. Normally power goes straight through. Some outlets a UPS. All are surge protected. I run the coach PC, routers, switch, MIFi devices on this. Land line to inverter and back is not a problem. Inverter to generator and back has enough delay that things drop off. With this they never do. It is simulated PSW on battery. It seels to make no different to the stuff I have connected to it.

I have all of the front end circuits and the refrigerator running full time on a very hi efficiency, low overhead PSW inverter now which essentially acts like a very big UPS. This lets me shut off the bigger inverter if it is not needed.

Our 3-300 watt panels averaged 2700 watts per day at Madison CG in Yellowstone for a week (trees, shade, some cloudy days) By mid afternoon my 1580 amp-hrs of capacity was usually at or very near float. It was keeping up just fine. When we were in Gros Ventre in the Tetons we were in the 3-5,000 watts per day. It was hotter so we had the big inverter on for a couple fans. We left there after a week at 100% SOC on both battery banks

The only way you will know how your system works is to use it in different situations, places, conditions. Experience will let you know how it is working and how to get the most out of it.

Our goal was 4-5 days off grid and generator free. So far we are doing that.

The real test comes in January when it is -15Â° and dark at 4PM and you stay overnight at a Walmart. It is 16 hrs to light outside again, no solar, AquaHot on, lights on, tv on for a while, refrigerator on, make some supper. Now it is simply all about capacity. No fun waking up at 4 AM when the low battery alarm is beeping. If you have to run the generator, run it before you go to bed and again when you make coffee and toast. This is the main reason we increased capacity. Solar gives us recharge options.

I have a 400 watt Bestek Inverter that was listed as a PSW inverter. Turns out it was not even close They gave me my money back and told me to keep the inverter. And changed the posting on Amazon. Still in the box.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #10 – November 14, 2017, 02:37:16 pm

Roger must have been an Amazon mistake. Bestek does not appear to make a 400 watt psw inverter. The 300 watt model is, and several people have tested and reviewed it to affirm it is psw. Best to research completely before believing Amazon.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #11 – November 14, 2017, 06:38:26 pm

If you are achieving float in the afternoon each day but the low voltage alarm comes on early in the morning, you don't have enough battery capacity. Installing more capacity with save money in the long run as deep cycle batteries don't like deep discharge day after day. Residential fridges are probably the biggest draw but I don't know how much the AH draws.

We also have LED lighting, a 46" LED TV and run the MiFi/laptops a lot. We only have six 68 amp hour batteries but they have plenty of juice in the morning to run the OEM inverter, the latte maker and microwave (slowly). Fridge is RV propane.

Pierce

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #12 – November 14, 2017, 08:31:12 pm

Pierce, capacity is exactly why we have 1500+ amphrs of capacity now. 3 8Ds with a res refrig, overnight in the winter when it is cold are insufficient capacity. Many add a fourth 8D but they are easily cabled poorly only resulting in ruining batteries.

All the solar in the world will not get you through the night without sufficient storage capacity.

It is not all one or the other, it is a balance of resources, supply and consumption.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #13 – November 14, 2017, 08:49:11 pm

JCus said
"Roger must have been an Amazon mistake. Bestek does not appear to make a 400 watt psw inverter. The 300 watt model is, and several people have tested and reviewed it to affirm it is psw. Best to research completely before believing Amazon."

This was more than a year ago. They didn't make a 400 watt PSW inverter. It was not a PSW inverter. But the product description came from Bestek as did the search tags. If you searched for a "pure sine wave inverter" it showed up. Some back and forth to get it straightened out. Tags and descriptions changed. I got my money back and kept the 400 watt non PSW inverter. I now have a smaller inverter that might be good for something.

Search anywhere and you will not find a PSW inverter in this size range for anywhere near this cheap. Got to make you wonder.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #14 – November 14, 2017, 09:16:20 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – November 14, 2017, 08:49:11 pm

JCus said
"Roger must have been an Amazon mistake. Bestek does not appear to make a 400 watt psw inverter. The 300 watt model is, and several people have tested and reviewed it to affirm it is psw. Best to research completely before believing Amazon."

This was more than a year ago. They didn't make a 400 watt PSW inverter. It was not a PSW inverter. But the product description came from Bestek as did the search tags. If you searched for a "pure sine wave inverter" it showed up. Some back and forth to get it straightened out. Tags and descriptions changed. I got my money back and kept the 400 watt non PSW inverter. I now have a

Search anywhere and you will not find a PSW inverter in this size range for anywhere near this cheap. Got to make you wonder.

Like I said, can't always believe what you read on Amazon or even the internet. I also find it hard to believe you can get a 300 watt psw inverter for $43. My last one was a go power psw 300 watt for $180, it lasted about 4 years. I have been running the Bestek 24/7 for about a week and fan seldom comes on, and it is quiet. So far so good, only time will tell if it is a real bargain or not. Remember when a 40 inch flatscreen was $800? Now you can get one with a far better picture for $250.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #15 – November 15, 2017, 07:54:42 am

Replying to Roger & Susan's reply "All the solar in the world will not get you through the night without sufficient storage capacity."

If you want to run the inverter day and night, and run lead-acid, you'll need to top off the batteries before sundown so they don't go below 50% SOC (State of Charge) to maximize battery life. If you want to use a solar-only strategy, and it's cloudy or shaded, you still will need to run the genny.

My lithiums allowed more flexibility because they can go to 20% SOC while maximizing battery life. The U270's inverter, 12VDC and 120VAC systems draw a minimum of 100 watts continuously. That's 2400 watt hours per day, minimum.

I recommend all solar RV operators calculate their daily usage vs solar input in KWH (Kilowatt Hours) and plan their generator use accordingly.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #16 – November 15, 2017, 08:41:39 am

Tim is right. The best way to approach this is from an overall system point of view. The first question most solar installers will ask is how much power do you use in a normal day? And that will never be the same from one user to the next. And then they ask what are your goals? And then what is your budget? Then comes conservation measures to reduce the total daily load, user behaviors to manage loads, adding battery capacity to get you from one time to another and the means to add charge back into the batteries. (Alternator, generator, solar, landline)

There is the perfect world and them the real world. Some days you will use way more power than normal. Some days will be cloudy or you will be parked under the trees. There have been lots of great installations that we can learn from, lots of opinions on the best way to do this part or that part, some ideas or equipment that just don't seem right for your situation. Some folks can do much of this work themselves, many look for help.

Do your homework, learn as much as you can, ask questions, plan, plan and replan. What you learn along the way will usually change your initial,thinking. And then do the best job you can to fit all of the needs and constraints you have. When you are done it will be amazing. It is for me.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #17 – November 15, 2017, 09:03:49 am

Agreed. We sometimes coordinate baking pies and cakes in the convection oven when it's sunny.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #18 – November 15, 2017, 02:45:03 pm

AM Solar will finish late afternoon today, we move back in to coach tomorrow morning, then heading towards Whalers Rest Thousand Trails in Newport OR (coast).

I also presold our current true sine wave inverter/control panel for $400 plus shipping, and our current AGM batteries to a local Foretravel owner for just the core charge on the batteries. Inverter shipped out yesterday, batteries will be picked up tomorrow morning at AM Solar.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #19 – November 15, 2017, 05:29:22 pm

Congratulations Dan on a nice set up. You will really enjoy the Victron components and especially the CCGX. We are adding a 180 from AM and upgraded to the 150/85 with 1200w top. Keeping the 100/50 which was limited to 700. Wise to give yourself the growth potential. Our 800w, 5x160 flat only just produced over 700 on two occasions. I seldom used the gen set this summer and after tracking usage over time decided we could do the same this winter with another panel.

See you at Sigsbee!

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #20 – November 15, 2017, 06:52:41 pm

We spent about four weeks in NE New Mexico this summer with 720 Watts of self installed solar and two 8D AGM batteries. We hit float at about 11:00 AM each day. We have Dish Satellite an AT&T Mifi and did not opt for a residential Fridge. We just renewed our old Dometic with the Amish Cooling Unit in 2015. This system is working out great for us and was well under $1,000.

Thanks to Ken Hathoway, Dave Katsuki and Jim Churchill and Pierce Stewart for their help on the solar.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #21 – November 15, 2017, 08:11:25 pm

Our Samsung residential refrig uses about 1,500 watts per day without the icemaker. Our old Prosine 2500 used about the same just to be on. Good reason to change to a Victron Multiplus. Somewhere around 2600 watts is breakeven with a residential refrigerator on a normal day. Some days more. With a gas refrig we would be just like Kent. But we like the Samsung and everything else we have in out coach just the way it is.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #22 – November 16, 2017, 10:50:41 am

Roger,

I was thinking about your low voltage alarm. How often does it come on and at what voltage? When it comes on, have you turned off the inverter and then checked the house voltage? Do you have a satellite receiver? They use a lot of juice even when off. AquaHot draw in watts or amps? Any idea on the no load inverter draw? Is your inverter on 24/7?

How about a small dedicated inverter just for the fridge?

With a 20 percent discharge, your house batteries should last around 3000 cycles. 50 percent discharge can be anywhere from 12.1 to 12.2 depending on the chart you find online.

Ours are 8 years old now. Keeping fingers crossed.

Pierce

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #23 – November 16, 2017, 03:24:22 pm

My experience is that at 20% discharge, Gel batteries may provide 3000 cycles, but only if you lower the voltage of your regulator (for the alternator) and the voltage of your solar controller.
My experience is that at 20% discharge, AGM batteries may provide 1500 cycles. My Lifeline AGM batteries only provided 1000 cycles.

Re: AM Solar solar/inverter/battery install, Springfield Oregon

Reply #24 – November 16, 2017, 05:19:20 pm

Hi Pierce,

See
Delco 40si 240 Amp Alternator, Sterling ProSplitR Installation
A Second House Battery Bank, Solar Panels, 2 New Inverters

We had 3 Lifeline 8Ds about 4 years old when we put in the Samsung refrigerator. We still had our old Prosine 2500 amp hr sink hole. I had suspected for some time that charging was sub par on those. They just never seemed to get up to full charge after a day of driving. Overnight at WM in the summer was OK but a 16 hr coldweather overnight with heat and all else stressed them. So around 4 in the AM they would be getting down to 12.3 v and the AH would fire up and voltage would drop below 12.2 and the low voltage beeper would start up. Past the AH start up part of the cycle the voltage would go back up to 12.2. A couple hours of gen time before bed and again in the AM got us through.

Low voltage alarm was set at 12.2 as I recall.

AH heat exchange blowers are very low power. The pumps use more but we only use one most of the time. The diesel blower motor uses more but is is usually only on for 20 min/hr.

The 120 volt circuits to the front end and the refrigerator now run off a smaller very high efficiency inverter. The front end circuit is branched into four switchable sub circuits to selectively turn on and off any if the components including the sat stuff. These circuits can be switched to run off either inverter or the land line but normally run on the small one hooked up to an 830 amphr capacity bank. Most everything else comes off the first bank, about 700 amp hrs (as they are tired). Big inverter can be off most of the time if need be.

Small inverter idle load is 6 watts. The Victron Mutliplus is 15 - 20 watts. Turning the Prosine on to run the refrigerator used 60 plus watts just to be on.

With two battery banks now, two inverters, new solar, new smart isolators and a 240 amp brushless Delco Alt. those days are history.

Even after several days recharging during the day on solar and then over night we are typically at mid 80s SOC in the morning. It varies, no hard and fast rules. It is what it is. We are not hard core long term boondockers. We are quite happy with many days w/o the generator.

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