Both sets of batteries are dead

Topic: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge? (Read 2846 times) previous topic - next topic

Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

January 19, 2018, 07:43:29 pm

I have my 1996 320 at the storage unit. Both the house batteries and the engine batteries are dead. I need to get the beast back running. It has been in storage for about three months now.

House battery - I do flip the house battery main disconnect when we leave it. I think we accidentally left the cabinet lights on in the rear one time which drained the house batteries (and the disconnect left on). The house batteries were always questionable since we bought it in April 2017. Since we were fulltiming, the house batteries were not an issue.

Engine batteries - We replaced these with new red Optima Red Top batteries in April. We started up the coach in November to let it idle for a hour or so. The engine normally(?) does take a good 7-9 seconds of cranking to fire up.

Generator - My generator hasn't been working right since the shop replaced the steering box. It will start up (when the batteries are charged) and run fine for 5-10 minutes and then shut off. I need to check over to the coach and check the fuel line and radiator fluid. I replaced the fuel filter in the last year. My thinking is that the fuel line is kinked somewhere.

Questions:
1) Is there a code on the generator that tells you why it shut down?

2) My thought is to rent a portable generator, plug the coach in, and let it run for a while. Will this also charge the engine batteries? I know I can use the Boost button to get the house batteries to help the engine batteries.

3) Is there a main disconnect for the engine batteries when I drop it off in storage?

4) Has anyone use inexpensive solar battery chargers when they put the unit in storage (not the permanently installed systems). My thought is to toss two small panels on the roof and run wires down to the batteries while I have it stored.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #1 – January 19, 2018, 07:46:45 pm

Which generator do you have? The boost turned on will charge house and engine batteries off the portable generator if you can't get yours working.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #2 – January 19, 2018, 07:48:29 pm

Quote from: craneman – January 19, 2018, 07:46:45 pm

Which generator do you have?

The coach has Power Tech diesel generator but that one only runs for 5-10 minutes even if I have good batteries.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #3 – January 19, 2018, 07:49:28 pm

Which one, Kabota or Isuzu?

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #4 – January 19, 2018, 07:52:33 pm

Quote from: craneman – January 19, 2018, 07:49:28 pm

Which one, Kabota or Isuzu?

I believe it is the Kabota since the filters I bought (air, oil, fuel) were also listed for Kabota.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #5 – January 19, 2018, 07:55:36 pm

When you start it does the fan come on? You have to open the door under the drivers seat and look or listen. If it isn't running that will shut off the generator after running for awhile. There is a circuit breaker on the front panel for the fan.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #6 – January 19, 2018, 07:58:21 pm

Quote from: craneman – January 19, 2018, 07:55:36 pm

When you start it does the fan come on? You have to open the door under the drivers seat and look or listen. If it isn't running that will shut off the generator after running for awhile. There is a circuit breaker on the front panel for the fan.

Thanks! I will have to check. It ran 100% fine prior to the steering box replacement. Maybe the fan wire is either disconnected or the breaker got flipped. They had to remove the generator radiator to replace the steering box!

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #7 – January 19, 2018, 08:26:37 pm

Fred,

On your coach they should have been able to remove the remote fan to be able to replace the steering box and leave the remote raidator alone. If they removed the radiator then you need to check to see if the fan is running. You should have an electrical junction box on the area above the fan hung on the rear wall above the raidator. Open this up and check your wiring here to check for proper wire hookup and good connections.

Also if the raidator was removed the cooling system may be air locked and will need to be bled to get the system full of antifreeze.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #8 – January 19, 2018, 08:28:19 pm

Is your coach stored inside or outside? Electricity available? Generator may be overheating-check coolant level. You could have a bad generator supply line from the tank. If the batteries have been flat for very long (a week or so), they won't come back. Disconnecting both sets of batteries (at the batteries ) in long term storage is the best way if no AC available. A dedicated solar setup would be good if stored outside. Troubles after someone has worked on the coach is unfortunately, very common.

Pierce

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #9 – January 19, 2018, 08:38:30 pm

The coach is stored outside at a storage center and no electricity is available. I'll probably have to rent a portable generator to get some juice in the batteries.

I will:
Check the radiator fluid level.
Check to see if the fan blade turn (see if is an electric or belt driven fan)
Check for the fan circuit breaker to make sure it is correct
Check the fuel lines

My hope is (1) to get the generator working so that can charge up the batteries, (2) use some sort of portable solar panels to trickle charge the batteries, and (3) make sure I visit the coach at least monthly to run both the engine and generator. (Hopefully also get out and USE IT.)

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #10 – January 19, 2018, 08:46:38 pm

Quote from: ViewRVs – January 19, 2018, 08:38:30 pm

Check the radiator fluid level.

You will have to check the various petcocks (at least 2) for air in the system. You should have 1 near the top radiator hose where it enters the remote radiator. The other will be on the thermostat housing. Just pulling the radiator cap will only show you part of the system.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #11 – January 19, 2018, 08:46:54 pm

Air bubble in gen at top will cause what you describe. The trapped air bubble will turn to hot steam, and kill the gen with the over temp sensor. Fix: Procedure for bleeding the coolant system on Powertech Generators

Also see this thread: Generator overtemp shut down

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #12 – January 19, 2018, 08:52:43 pm

Dan,

Fred's system is quite different than the '02 listed on your link. There is some good info there that does apply though.

Mike

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #13 – January 19, 2018, 08:53:29 pm

The fan not running will also cause what you describe. Mine did that when it blew a winding and was running but producing no electricity. No electricity, no fan, overheating shut down.

Mine has a couple of idiot lights on the front panel, near the circuit breakers.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #14 – January 19, 2018, 09:16:44 pm

Lots of good info here.

Run dead batteries normally will not recover correctly. I left the headlights on by mistake and ran the red tops dead.

Never came back correctly. 3 years old.

Same for old non perfect house batteries.

Fix was to first install 270 Watts(14 Amps of 12 volt dc then remove the isolator and install a sea land auto combiner instead.

As the sun hits the panels and the voltage hits 13.5 at the batteries I can hear the combiner "click" to auto connect the two near new condition battery banks,

The combiner auto disconnects when a discharge occurs. Like at night. Wired in at the cable junction where the isolator was before.

Without bad engine batteries the small solar system can keep both batteries at 100% continuously.

With bad engine batteries their draw was too much for the connected batteries systems to keep up the engine batteries charge.

Replaced the bad red tops with 3 new ones from O' Reilly's and every time I go to the coach both battery's show fully charged.

Finally fixed. Not the cheapest way for sure. Basically back to the original oem install but with the auto combiner instead.

All the new coaches come with combiners as I understand this issue.

I can see why in my coach. Auto connect when either bank is charging and auto disconnect under discharge. Manual disconnect is available. Manual connect is available.

Good to start with battery banks, medium solar install to power the charge system and the auto connect and disconnect combiner works well and a lot of new coaches have similar systems new.

Combiner switch installed where the boost was, no power draw when on. Magnetic. No indicator light on combiner switch as running a front to rear wire was not worth it so far.

Tried all the other fixes. This works great.

One caveat is that hooking my small solar panels through the small wires at the refer dropped their output to 13.6 at the batteries which is the float voltage for our battery banks and matches the alternator output at the batteries.

More voltage without a temp compensating solar controller may over charge the battery bank in warm weather.

At 77 degrees and below the 13.6 is correct for out mk 8g8d house batteries and our red tops.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #15 – January 20, 2018, 10:35:53 am

Careful installing temp solar panels with wires hanging down on the roof as they may get legs at a storage facility. Then the panels are gone and the batteries too. Possible bad surprise at your next visit.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #16 – January 20, 2018, 12:04:53 pm

My 96 U320 has build # 4943, so built just a couple months before yours.
Mine has a Powertech 10K generator with the four cylinder Kubota engine. The cooling fan is quite large and fills the storage bay behind the driver seat. The Kubota engine has a fan belt driven water pump and the fan belt is hidden behind a cover under the antifreeze tank. If fan belt is missing or badly worn, no cooling circulation will cause shutdown after a few minutes.

I had to top up the antifreeze and while it was not easy to pour after removing the tank cap (same as radiator cap), there was no chance of an air lock stopping the flow of antifreeze.

I also had the power steering rebuild and had to remove the fan for access but not the radiator.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #17 – January 21, 2018, 07:25:26 pm

Thanks for all of the input. I did swing by the coach to retrieve some items. I took a quick look at the radiator. It looks like my generator radiator fan is electric. There is an electric motor behind the round cover. I could not see any breakers but I'll have to come back when I can get my hands dirty. There is an electrical box up above the radiator.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #18 – January 21, 2018, 08:20:32 pm

Quote from: ViewRVs – January 21, 2018, 07:25:26 pm

Thanks for all of the input. I did swing by the coach to retrieve some items. I took a quick look at the radiator. It looks like my generator radiator fan is electric. There is an electric motor behind the round cover. I could not see any breakers but I'll have to come back when I can get my hands dirty. There is an electrical box up above the radiator.

The breaker for the fan is on the front of the generator.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #19 – January 21, 2018, 08:26:40 pm

The generator has a belt drive water pump on it. Nothing to do with the a/c powered radiator fan. One circulates the liquid the other cools it

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #20 – January 22, 2018, 01:14:32 am

Can you get your car close enough to the coach to use jumper cables to start either the generator or engine. Car might not have enough power to jump the main engine even with the car engine running fast. Let the batteries charge a bit before trying to start the coach engine.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #21 – January 22, 2018, 09:22:05 am

If the batteries are truly dead (under 10 VDC) many inverter/chargers may NOT charge them.

You may have to start the charging process with an auxiliary "stupid" charger.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #22 – January 22, 2018, 10:14:34 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – January 21, 2018, 08:26:40 pm

The generator has a belt drive water pump on it. Nothing to do with the a/c powered radiator fan. One circulates the liquid the other cools it

They removed his fan to do the steering box. The problem developed after the steering box repair.

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #23 – January 22, 2018, 10:16:40 am

Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker – January 22, 2018, 01:14:32 am

Can you get your car close enough to the coach to use jumper cables to start either the generator or engine. Car might not have enough power to jump the main engine even with the car engine running fast. Let the batteries charge a bit before trying to start the coach engine.

Yes, about 15 minutes.

P

Re: Both sets of batteries are dead - solar charge?

Reply #24 – January 22, 2018, 12:33:45 pm

Craneman he still has a shutdown problem with two major possible causes, I replaced both my breakers and still had intermediate issues, Then the belt. Then the glow plugs, then adjusted the valves and injectors.

Much better, fix everything for reliability and safety

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