Airing tires from onboard hose.

Topic: Airing tires from onboard hose. (Read 3531 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #75 – March 12, 2018, 01:49:01 pm

Quote from: Mike J – March 12, 2018, 01:33:06 pm

Interesting product Doug, Do you have tire pressure sensors? Wondering if this stuff would mess with them.

Thanks, Mike J

Mike, no l do not use tire sensors. Yes my thoughts it would mess with them.... maybe depends on which type of sensor?

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #76 – March 12, 2018, 02:37:50 pm

Interesting that in the products description they mention it's addressing several moisture issues posted here.

Would seem that dry air would be less messy.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #77 – March 12, 2018, 04:40:55 pm

Hi Doug,

I have the TST TPMS. Have to check with them about using this inside the tires.

The video/write up on product you're using is interesting and possible solution? Given it appears the blowouts that have been discussed here thus far seem to show rusted steel cords in the carcasses. I would think anything that helps seal the tire inner surface would be helpful. At least that is one feature they claim and is how they are selling it.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #78 – March 12, 2018, 04:42:55 pm

Waterless mounting stuff is:

https://shop.myerstiresupply.com/ERP2Web49/e2wItemMain.aspx?parentId=00004993

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #79 – March 12, 2018, 05:14:27 pm

The biggest advantage of the product is the prevention of rust on the wheels of heavy equipment and the labor it saves. Wish they had this product when I was a heavy equipment mech. in the Operating Engineers. It would sometimes take 4 hours to get a tire off of a scraper because of rust built up on the wheel.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #80 – March 12, 2018, 06:34:17 pm

Quote from: craneman – March 12, 2018, 05:14:27 pm

The biggest advantage of the product is the prevention of rust on the wheels...

Isn't it nice to know that our Alcoa wheels don't rust!

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #81 – March 12, 2018, 06:37:07 pm

Inner duals on u270 and u295 are steel rims as far as I know

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #82 – March 12, 2018, 06:56:06 pm

My rear inner wheels are steel.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #83 – March 12, 2018, 07:01:43 pm

Quote from: John44 – March 12, 2018, 06:56:06 pm

My rear inner wheels are steel.

Think it depends on model, my 270 had steel inner, but 320 and maybe 295 all aluminum.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #84 – March 14, 2018, 11:20:59 pm

Quote from: Mike J – March 12, 2018, 01:11:21 pm

.......................Please correct me if in error or confirm my assumptions if you wish...........................

Mike J,
I have a couple of comments regarding your assumptions. For convenience sake, I've just added them into your posting, using a different color font.

Thanks to everyone for putting air into my tire/rubber/steel cord education. I'm learning a lot. The forum is surely where the rubber meets the road!

This is what I think we have for dry air to fill my tires. Based on what I see in the 2003 air diagram and our 2002 U270. May not specifically apply to your coach. Please correct me if in error or confirm my assumptions if you wish.

1. All air supplied by the engine compressor is dried. Yes, but only if your air dryer has been properly maintained and the desiccant has not outlived its function.

2. The switch (we have one) at dash in retarder console, opens solenoid allowing un-dried air from the 12v compressor directly into the wet tank. When preparing to depart a campground and we find our air system is depleted, FT has provided me a choice: Either idle engine long enough to build air pressure or use the 12v compressor to pressurize the tanks, (albeit very slowly) and thereby keep the neighbors happy by not running the engine. The down side of being quiet is slow pressure build time and introducing contaminated un-dried air into the wet tank. In model year 2002, FT started using the Thomas TA4101 12Vdc, 1/3 HP, 100 psig (max.), auxiliary air compressor. I believe that is what you should find in your coach. The reason they did this was due to the need for a higher duty rating and a more robust compressor when slides were added to the coaches. The older coaches had a less robust, lesser duty rating compressor (brands and models escape me at the moment). The 12 Vdc compressors have always been there as an HWH air leveling system maintenance unit, and the dry air needs were of less concern since they fed aluminum blocks and rubber air bags. With the advent of slides, air demands increased and beyond the compressor changes, Wilkerson filtration, including desiccants, and aux. air storage tanks were added, across all model levels, I believe. The spec sheets are not exact, but I believe the notation "Auxiliary 12 Volt Air Compressor" on models U270 through U320, starting in 2002 and beyond, signifies the Thomas TA4101 plus filtration use.

"Properly maintained", again; If your Wilkerson filtration is being maintained properly, you will never have moisture added to your tires or tanks from a 100 psig, Thomas 12Vdc aux air compressor. The problem is that people don't maintain them properly.

In the PDI (pre-delivery-inspection) that I performed on our current (SPEC) coach, I found the aux compressor cycling frequently and water, a large amount of water, in my "slide (even though I don't have any slides) aux air tank". That was because there were numerous air leaks throughout the coach, the aux. air compressor desiccant was long exhausted, the "slide aux. tank" had not been blown down (blowdown fittings are not extended out to wheel well access on 2002's), etc. etc. The other tanks were fine, so apparently the PO did not use the left dash "air tank" switch frequently (because it passes aux. compressor effluent to the wet tank as well as the front, rear and aux air tanks). Besides many air leak repairs, I had to take down the aux tank and have it refurbished, I had to rebuild the Thomas compressor and the Wilkerson filtration system had to be replaced.

3. The air chuck can receive un-dried air directly from the 12v compressor. No. Your air chuck air should be from a dry source, if your aux air filtration (desiccant) is being maintained. It can also receive dry air from the engine compressor via the front brake tank. (The 12v compressor should not be used to air the coach tires as it does not supply enough psi and volume and doing so would/could introduce moisture into the tires).

4. If parked, engine off, and keeping coach level with the 12v compressor, the air going to airbags is undried Your HWH air should be from the Aux Tank which is a dry source, if your main and aux air filtration (desiccant) is being maintained properly.

5. Is the pressure required to inflate the airbags for travel/leveling below the 65 psi threshold of the tank check valves. This would mean no contaminated un-dried air from the 12v compressor can enter the brake tanks UNLESS, the dash switch in #2 above has opened the solenoid at some time allowing 12v compressor air into the wet tank and subsequently the fr/rr brake tanks.

6. My choice if all the above is correct: Leave solenoid switch at dash off. Only use the 12v compressor to keep coach level while parked. Use the engine to build tank air pressure and fill tires. Get to know my park neighbors and if possible, don't leave our campsite before they have had their cup of coffee in the morning.

Need to rethink 4, 5, 6 above based upon whether you have the Thomas TA4101 system or not.

HTH,
Neal

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #85 – March 15, 2018, 10:52:04 am

Very few Forum Members have a coach newer than the 2006 model years. But, sometimes after 2006, Foretravel removed the Wilkerson Filtration system from the 12 volt aux air compressor. A few years ago I spoke to Foretravel about this. It was confirmed that the Wilkerson Filtration system was removed and said that Foretravel had decided that it was not necessary on the 12 volt air compressor system. They further stated that it would be ok to remove it from my 2005 model. I decided to leave the system in place. I used the 12 volt aux compressor quite often to air up my tanks before I started the main engine to leave a campground.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #86 – March 15, 2018, 01:15:08 pm

Quote from: ltg – March 15, 2018, 10:52:04 am

Very few Forum Members have a coach newer than the 2006 model years. But, sometimes after 2006, Foretravel removed the Wilkerson Filtration system from the 12 volt aux air compressor. A few years ago I spoke to Foretravel about this. It was confirmed that the Wilkerson Filtration system was removed and said that Foretravel had decided that it was not necessary on the 12 volt air compressor system. They further stated that it would be ok to remove it from my 2005 model. I decided to leave the system in place. I used the 12 volt aux compressor quite often to air up my tanks before I started the main engine to leave a campground.

Larry, I also use the dash switch to allow the aux compressor to fill my tanks before I start my main engine. The Wilkerson system has a water separator and a desiccant filter to remove any water that gets by the seperator.
As long as you change out the desiccant when necessary, I see no problem with this.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #87 – March 15, 2018, 01:58:38 pm

My 1999 has all 6 wheels aluminum. Much adoo about airing up tires.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #88 – March 15, 2018, 02:05:22 pm

My 97 320 has six alloys.

I vaguely remember something from long ago about reactions between steel and aluminum and a copper colored spacer between them? Maybe the dura bright later wheels do not need it?

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #89 – March 15, 2018, 02:17:13 pm

Mine also has aluminum inner wheels.
John

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #90 – March 15, 2018, 02:19:32 pm

Quote from: bbeane – March 15, 2018, 01:58:38 pm

My 1999 has all 6 wheels aluminum. Much adoo about airing up tires.

Me got 6 too. Agree - we've beat this subject to death.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #91 – March 15, 2018, 04:06:06 pm

Slow day on the forum

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #92 – March 15, 2018, 05:23:36 pm

I've 6 also,
In time, we'll beat this thread to death.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #93 – March 15, 2018, 05:30:48 pm

Since it's MY THREAD, I don't want to see it beaten to death on a slow day, so I'll make one comment: I HAVE SIX!

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #94 – March 15, 2018, 05:39:22 pm

I have six from the factory. This thread will be hijacked long before it is beaten to death!

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #95 – March 15, 2018, 05:46:27 pm

I guess steel wheels are passe.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #96 – March 15, 2018, 06:30:50 pm

Quote from: lgshoup – March 15, 2018, 05:39:22 pm

I have six from the factory. This thread will be hijacked long before it is beaten to death!

I got 6 from the corner store...

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #97 – March 15, 2018, 10:20:38 pm

Dissimilar metals can cause corrosion without protection

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #98 – April 10, 2018, 01:49:15 pm

Been awhile getting back to the forum. To identify our aux air compressor required finding someone able to wriggle into the basement alongside the wheelchair lift. Very little space available.

Update on aux air compressor in our 02 U270. Neal Pillsbury correctly named our aux air system. From his earlier post:

" In model year 2002, FT started using the Thomas TA4101 12Vdc, 1/3 HP, 100 psig (max.), auxiliary air compressor. I believe that is what you should find in your coach. The reason they did this was due to the need for a higher duty rating and a more robust compressor when slides were added to the coaches."

Pictures attached. Yes we have the Thomas 4101. (even though we do not have any slides) The desiccant container is visible as are two water traps. Neal, is this the Wilkerson filtration system you mentioned?

Newbie question: Are there separate desiccants/filtration systems for the engine air compressor and the aux Thomas compressor?

Is the Thomas a good unit? Is it strong enough to air the suspension to travel mode without damaging itself, overheating etc. (I suspect the answer is no. Isn't the aux unit only designed for maintaining level and slide operation...True/False?) I might consider running it more often if there were no issues using the aux compressor to achieve travel mode and airing tires. It would be nice to avoid running the Cummins and disturbing our park neighbors. Could make our departure from campsites a bit quieter without any extra diesel exhaust as well.

Re: Airing tires from onboard hose.

Reply #99 – April 10, 2018, 01:59:37 pm

450C Compressor | VIAIR Corporation
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Campbell-Hausfeld-Desiccant-Dryer-PA208503AV/100671461

If you have room, I installed these to air up coach and fill tires without running engine.

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