WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Topic: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!! (Read 3967 times) previous topic - next topic

WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

March 11, 2018, 08:40:10 am

Well I was driving my coach home from Indiana on Friday, after picking it up from the fantastic interior redo, with a big smile on my face, when all of a sudden I felt what was like a tire blow out on my truck (which I was towing), I got out to inspect and saw a trail of anti freeze on the ground. Long story short a freeze plug somehow came out and I lost all anti freeze. No alarms came on and of course I don't keep my eyes glued to my gauges. Just in the matter of moments it appears that I destroyed the lower end of my engine, not sure until I get it towed back to Florida on Tuesday, but it looks like a new engine will be the fix. Looks like about 25 K or more. I would have your freeze plugs checked with all of these older engines.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #1 – March 11, 2018, 08:43:47 am

Wow, I had a low coolant light that sends a stop engine light in my last Foretravel.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #2 – March 11, 2018, 08:57:59 am

Why don't you put a freeze plug in it and drive it home?

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #3 – March 11, 2018, 09:00:51 am

Quote from: John S – March 11, 2018, 08:43:47 am

Wow, I had a low coolant light that sends a stop engine light in my last Foretravel.

If I do I either didn't see it or it did not come on.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #4 – March 11, 2018, 09:02:08 am

Quote from: stump – March 11, 2018, 08:57:59 am

Why don't you put a freeze plug in it and drive it home?

The engine is coming apart on the bottom end.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #5 – March 11, 2018, 09:03:03 am

If indeed you do need a overhaul the price for all the parts I would rough estimate at 5K give or take.Assume you have a 8.3?
Would find a good shop that can diagnose it first.If the crankshaft is no good you may be better off getting a long block
installed.Keep us posted.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #6 – March 11, 2018, 09:12:52 am

Quote from: John44 – March 11, 2018, 09:03:03 am

If indeed you do need a overhaul the price for all the parts I would rough estimate at 5K give or take.Assume you have a 8.3?
Would find a good shop that can diagnose it first.If the crankshaft is no good you may be better off getting a long block
installed.Keep us posted.

I have the best shop in Clearwater, they will check it out this week.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #7 – March 11, 2018, 09:43:13 am

And here is a good reminder to us all to periodically check the acidity level of our antifreeze. Simple litmus strips could tell you the antifreeze has deteriorated to the point that it is destroying freeze plugs AND radiators.
For one, I sure intend to check the antifreeze in our vehicles!!

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #8 – March 11, 2018, 09:50:54 am

Quote from: John44 – March 11, 2018, 09:03:03 am

If indeed you do need a overhaul the price for all the parts I would rough estimate at 5K give or take.Assume you have a 8.3?
Would find a good shop that can diagnose it first.If the crankshaft is no good you may be better off getting a long block
installed.Keep us posted.

I have the best shop in Clearwater, they will check it out this week.

Quote from: nitehawk – March 11, 2018, 09:43:13 am

And here is a good reminder to us all to periodically check the acidity level of our antifreeze. Simple litmus strips could tell you the antifreeze has deteriorated to the point that it is destroying freeze plugs AND radiators.
For one, I sure intend to check the antifreeze in our vehicles!!

Great advice!

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #9 – March 11, 2018, 10:12:15 am

Sorry to hear of your trouble, Rick. "Engine Failure" is one of the LAST things any of us ever want to experience.

Trying to understand the progression of failure here. Driving at highway speed, freeze plug blows out, what happens? My guess:

1. Big cloud of liquid and vapor blows out behind the coach. If not watching the mirrors could it be missed?
2. Engine temps start to rise. What would the dash engine temp gauge show with no coolant circulating?
3. Oil temp would rapidly increase. At what temp does the oil stop protecting the rotating parts?
4. Oil pressure would drop. Do all coaches have a "Low Oil Pressure" warning light?
5. Power would start to drop off, due to loss of oil lubrication/pressure. Would this be gradual, and noticeable?
6. Rotating assemblies would start to seize up. What would fail first...pistons and rods?...camshaft?...crank shaft?...
7. Catastrophic destruction.

Any other members with similar personal experience to share? Truck drivers? Race car drivers?

Is there any way to "check" freeze plugs, other than totally removing them and replacing with new parts?

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #10 – March 11, 2018, 10:23:42 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – March 11, 2018, 10:12:15 am

Trying to understand the progression of failure here. Driving at highway speed, freeze plug blows out, what happens? My guess:

1. Big cloud of liquid and vapor blows out behind the coach. If not watching the mirrors could be missed?
2. Engine temps start to rise. What would the dash engine temp gauge show with no coolant circulating?
3. Oil temp would rapidly increase. At what temp does the oil start to quit protecting the rotating parts?
4. Oil pressure would drop. Do all coaches have a "Low Oil Pressure" warning light?
5. Power would start to drop off, due to loss of oil lubrication/pressure. Would this be gradual, and noticeable?
6. Rotating assemblies would start to seize up. What would fail first...pistons and rods?...camshaft?...crank shaft?...
7. Catastrophic destruction.

Any other members with similar personal experience to share? Truck drivers? Race car drivers?

Is there any way to "check" freeze plugs, other than totally removing them and replacing with new parts?

It happened so quickly, I did not notice anything until I felt the engine shudder and by then it was too late. Like I said earlier I thought that I had blown a tire on my tow vehicle, and I was not paying attention to my dash. I don't stare at my gauges, but just check them periodically as I drive.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #11 – March 11, 2018, 10:25:29 am

As of this moment I don't know how to check freeze plugs but I guaranty you that I will in the future!

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #12 – March 11, 2018, 10:28:59 am

I can only speak from my experience, lost a hose on my C 15 cat, and the cab filled with steam and blocked my view, by time I got it shut down and stopped I lost 10 gallons of antifreeze.
Stop engine lite flashed but I was more concerned about seeing where I was going .
So my first thought on Rick's deal would have seen steamin the side mirrors and temps going up pretty fast.
Sorry for your problems Rick good luck.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #13 – March 11, 2018, 10:36:18 am

The last thing to fail on overheating would be the lower end. Pistons fail first, valves tulip, (racing people will know that term) heads and blocks crack then the bottom end starts failing. I don't know what you are hearing or seeing to make you think the bottom end has failed. After re-reading the part about you thinking you had a blow-out, my opinion is you had a failure that caused the coolant leak, not the coolant leak causing the failure. Time will tell.
I feel for you, it is a horrible feeling to see ourselves in your position.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #14 – March 11, 2018, 11:04:25 am

Nice to say that you would see a gauge or steam in the mirror but you probably would not, especially at night. Just like a flat tire on the toad. I drove about 15 minutes with a flat before a trucker gave me a warning. With an overheat this bad it can crack heads, warp the block and basically destroy the engine. Rods will turn blue on the big end and then may fail entirely. Yes, I would be looking at another engine. Probably a one in twenty chance of noticing it. Does not have to be a freeze plug. Lots of other cooling system failures will do the same thing. Same with an oil line failure with resulting pressure loss. The engine will keep running until it has some kind of failure.

We lost a hydraulic belt twice on our U300 and didn't see the problem until the DDEC (Detroit Diesel Electronic Control) went to half power for 30 seconds and shut down. Lucky!!! Some people have even used the override switch repeatedly and managed to ruin an engine.

Other electronic engines may have a emergency shutdown like this. If you don't, you should have a sensor with an audible as well as visible alarm for your mechanical engine.

GVs have a terrible warning light problem with the steering wheel exactly in the way of the top row of lights. I can move the wheel but don't like it in this position. Possible reflective tape solution right above the lights.

Years ago, I was in a 100 lap main event at Saugus Speedway. I had been following Jimmy Insolo for a couple of laps and had already lapped him several times. Jimmy had been a previous star of West Coast racing and had done well at Riverside not long before. Anyway, he was just smoking a bit, the kind you can smell when following someone. I remember I was about 200 feet back going into turn 1 when he put a rod through the pan/side of the block. He spun, stopped sideways and no matter how I turned the wheel or braked, he got closer and closer in slow motion until I hit him in the drivers door with him watching me the whole time. Parts were coming down off the cars for what seemed like minutes. I thought I had killed him and was never so happy as when he moved in his seat. I can see this exactly as if it happened yesterday.

Pierce

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #15 – March 11, 2018, 11:21:35 am

On a few of the endurance racing cars , I add a low pressure switch to the coolant system. It is simply a 3psi oil pressure switch . It stays on until the temp /pressure comes up .

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #16 – March 11, 2018, 11:34:47 am

Diagnosis will be done this week and that will obviously determine the course of action I will take. My mind is setting me up psychologically for a total engine failure, which if that is true I will buy a re-man from Cummins as these 8.3 mech. are no longer being manufactured.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #17 – March 11, 2018, 11:35:46 am

Freeze plugs usually start seeping first,depending where the coolant temp sensor is and how fast the coolant came out it's
possible the sensor itself never got too hot.Once the level gets below the sensor even the steam may not get it hot enough as it's
a vapor.

Did anyone service the coolant filter and leave the shutoff valve closed?

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #18 – March 11, 2018, 11:37:20 am

Quote from: Andy 2 – March 11, 2018, 10:28:59 am

I can only speak from my experience, lost a hose on my C 15 cat, and the cab filled with steam and blocked my view, by time I got it shut down and stopped I lost 10 gallons of antifreeze.
Stop engine lite flashed but I was more concerned about seeing where I was going .
So my first thought on Rick's deal would have seen steamin the side mirrors and temps going up pretty fast.
Sorry for your problems Rick good luck.

Thanks Andy, but it is only an engine failure as my wife reminded me, not a serious health issue to deal with, so I am thankful.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #19 – March 11, 2018, 11:41:27 am

Quote from: John44 – March 11, 2018, 11:35:46 am

Freeze plugs usually start seeping first,depending where the coolant temp sensor is and how fast the coolant came out it's
possible the sensor itself never got too hot.Once the level gets below the sensor even the steam may not get it hot enough as it's
a vapor.

Did anyone service the coolant filter and leave the shutoff valve closed?

No, I had driven the coach from Elkhart to Nashville on Friday so 450 miles of driving when it happened. Cummins of Nashville found the freeze plug missing and said that it probably was rusting away but that was just there guess without looking deeper at that time. Cummins tech said that after we started it back up at the service center, he said that it sounded as though the engine had come apart in the block.

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #20 – March 11, 2018, 11:47:47 am

Sorry to hear of your "episode", Rick. What make is that engine and do you have the mileage? We did have a forum member who had his engine go south and had it rebuilt in the coach. Funny how a little $5.00 item can cause such problems! Luck,

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #21 – March 11, 2018, 11:53:41 am

Quote from: mike leary – March 11, 2018, 11:47:47 am

Sorry to hear of your "episode", Rick. What make is that engine and do you have the mileage? We did have a forum member who had his engine go south and had it rebuilt in the coach. Funny how a little $5.00 item can cause such problems! Luck,

1998 8.3 mechanical 325 H.P. with about 150 k on it

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #22 – March 11, 2018, 12:06:02 pm

Quote from: barndog – March 11, 2018, 11:37:20 am

Thanks Andy, but it is only an engine failure as my wife reminded me, not a serious health issue to deal with, so I am thankful.

Exactly! No fire, earthquake, mechanical failure is even one percent of the seriousness of a health problem. And don't blame yourself for not being aware of the problem. Only luck could have seen it.

Pierce

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #23 – March 11, 2018, 12:09:41 pm

Might wanna go with brass;
Freeze Plug Size Chart – freezeplugfactory.com

Re: WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!!

Reply #24 – March 11, 2018, 12:13:00 pm

Mike, your low pressure normally-closed switch is brilliant and a worthwhile add. Thanks, Barry

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