The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

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The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

April 28, 2018, 09:25:15 pm

On the way home this afternoon from resolving the air level question I noticed an unrelated momentary engine hesitation. Thought I heard the warning bell and a flash of the check engine light. Happened a few more times so I pulled over and checked codes in VMSPC. See attached...2 versions of Fuel Delivery Pressure fault codes.

Quick google pointed to fuel lift pump and/or fuel filters. Close to home so made it OK with the event only occurring at highway speeds. Didn't notice it around town speeds.

Then it occurred to me that when I last checked the oil a few weeks ago I noticed a very light spatter of something around the engine bay. I had took the time to clean it and didn't think much of it other than to think I'd know something was up if it happened again.

Well, after getting home I pulled the hatch up and again a very light spatter. See pics. Hard to imagine its fuel filters if the spatter is related.

Lifetime pump? Back to Cummins in Tampa? What kind of $ potentially.

We're 10:days out from pulling out fo 6 months so want to get these things resolved. Just need a few ew coach bucks left of fuel 👍.

Thanks

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #1 – April 28, 2018, 09:51:24 pm

Randy- I had the same codes. First I changed both fuel filters. My lift pump had already been replaced so I was not concerned about that. After a while on the road the hesitations got worse, check engine light came on but didn't stay on, etc. I had my fuel lines replaced a few years ago and realized that this was above my skill level ( although I had an idea) and I scheduled an appointment with Cummins Coach Care in Avondale , Az ( just outside of Phoenix). They took it in, diagnosed that part of my CAPS fuel pump, the accumulator part was bad- they had the part in stock and it was an all day job the next day to take things apart. put it back together, test etc. Everything is working great since then ( we are full timers) and my total bill was about $2700 with my Cummins Power Club discount. This is a lot less than $6,000 to replace the whole CAPS pump which was not needed.

You have the same engine I do so I share my experience in the hope that it will help you in your diagnosis and repair of your issue.
Start with the simple things first- fuel filter change, then lift pump, last thing is diagnosis of CAPS pump.

Best of luck and hope to cya down the road...............

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #2 – April 28, 2018, 11:19:53 pm

Some info for everyone out there. I talked to a really experienced tech at Cummins Jacksonville. He said they have never replaced an entire caps pump. He said if anyone ever says the entire pump needs replacing you need to leave. The pump is made up of many components (I think 6) and they are replaced individually when they fail.

Mark

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #3 – April 28, 2018, 11:31:35 pm

Well wish I had found one of those Cummins dealers 3 years ago that would replace pieces of the CAPS pump. Chattanooga Tn, Nashville Tn, and Birmingham Al would only replace the complete pump. Ended up having a Freightliner dealer do the work as none of the aforementioned Cummins folks had any interest in working on a motor home. Maybe it was just my charming personality.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #4 – April 28, 2018, 11:41:44 pm

Quote from: bbeane – April 28, 2018, 11:31:35 pm

Well wish I had found one of those Cummins dealers 3 years ago that would replace pieces of the CAPS pump. Chattanooga Tn, Nashville Tn, and Birmingham Al would only replace the complete pump. Ended up having a Freightliner dealer do the work as none of the aforementioned Cummins folks had any interest in working on a motor home. Maybe it was just my charming personality.

Nope best just replace the whole engine is better from the dealer standpoint. That way it's not there problem.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #5 – April 28, 2018, 11:53:42 pm

Quote from: bbeane – April 28, 2018, 11:31:35 pm

Well wish I had found one of those Cummins dealers 3 years ago that would replace pieces of the CAPS pump. Chattanooga Tn, Nashville Tn, and Birmingham Al would only replace the complete pump. Ended up having a Freightliner dealer do the work as none of the aforementioned Cummins folks had any interest in working on a motor home. Maybe it was just my charming personality.

Years ago wanted a "cummins insite computer" printout on my engine codes, hours etc. Called Cummins in Houston and asked what it cost for the printout on a ISM. They said $250. Went up and they plugged in their computer to my ecm port under the dash and downloaded the info and printed it, and gave it to me. When I went to pay, service manager said it would be $450. I asked why, and he said "it is more difficult to do to a motorhome than a truck". Needless to say I was not happy, they finally agree on $250, but they said next time it would be $450.
Maybe my personality too, but have had little faith in Cummins Service since then.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #6 – April 29, 2018, 12:26:41 am

To add to my last post all said no parts available, as well as my diesel pump shop in Orlando complete pumps only, but that was 3 years ago.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #7 – April 29, 2018, 12:31:25 am

Determine what the splatter is,if it's fuel you may just have a loose fuel filter,open the engine compartment and start the engine
and have someone give it a high idle and see if you can see where the splatter is coming from.
Not sure how long this current trip was Randy but you need to check oil and look over the engine more then every few weeks,
some of us check things like that every day while on the road.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #8 – April 29, 2018, 12:40:21 am

Interesting what Ted & Karen said on Cpas pump as I have had many of those "Fuel issue" blips on my VMSpc this last trip south.
I have the ISC 350 (with Banks) so maybe the same problem with the Accumulator??
Rocky Mntn Cummins in Avondale is same place I asked to be towed too from Q a few years ago when I had the loss of power issue for a week. Good people to work with and they are well used to M Homes there.
JohnH

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #9 – April 29, 2018, 12:46:12 am

OK
I give
VMSPC

CAPS PUMP ??
I feel so ignorant. Where do I find out what these are ? Inquiring minds want to know.....

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #10 – April 29, 2018, 01:01:14 am

GleamB, CAPS pump is the injector pump on an ISC Cummins, your M11 is a different system. VMspec is an engine monitoring system program from Silverleaf electronics, way more reliable than the dash gauges.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #11 – April 29, 2018, 01:08:42 am

Appearently just ask Ben Dover with Cummins.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #12 – April 29, 2018, 08:11:17 am

Ben Dover is everywhere.............not just Cummins!

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #13 – April 29, 2018, 10:47:06 am

Quote from: Travelin' Man – April 29, 2018, 08:11:17 am

Ben Dover is everywhere.............not just Cummins!

Sounds like a start to a VERY BAD movie!!

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #14 – April 29, 2018, 10:59:05 am

With the small amount of diesel seen in the photos, I would try and isolate where it's coming from. Could be a fuel hose with a small leak letting air in and diesel out at times. Yes, nail it down before heading out but it's probably not the end of the world either.

Retirees and their motorhomes are great targets for shops. It's not like a trucking company with other trucks to use while one is in the shop.

Pierce

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #15 – April 29, 2018, 02:08:31 pm

Looked carefully and both the driver and passenger side for signs of fluid. I could see nothing on the passenger side from either above or below and this is where I thought I had read that the caps injection pump is located, somewhere near the secondary fuel filter. Nothing wet but I could see in that area.

On the driver side, behind the alternator there were areas that indicated some type of fluid as shown in the attached pictures. I've taken one both from above and below in that location. Not sure what the culprit could be in the stereo so I offer this additional info if anyone can decipher what might be going on.

Thanks

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #16 – April 29, 2018, 02:25:58 pm

Andy,

Code could indicate a fuel leak but could be another problem along with low fuel pressure. Could also be oil from the dipstick or a tiny oil line leak. Impossible to tell from the photos. Power steering or hydraulic pump/motor seeping? Even a gasket. Only thing I can suggest is to use a $1 spray bottle filled with a degreasing liquid. Spray area and wipe off and then look after a few miles. Lots of air movement means it could come from a foot or so away.

Pierce

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #17 – April 29, 2018, 02:30:48 pm

Looking at the 2nd picture it almost looks like 2 bolts that are hanging down towards the middle of the picture are loose,if looks
like the flat washers are not all the way tight,anybody else spot that?,may just be how it looks.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #18 – April 29, 2018, 04:18:39 pm

John and Pierce

Good suggestions. I'll take a look.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #19 – April 29, 2018, 04:24:55 pm

What is the component John refers to with the possible loose bolts? Right behind alternator.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #20 – April 29, 2018, 04:28:43 pm

It's near the alternator in the second picture right above the big black rubber elbow,in the picture the bolt is hanging down and the
flatwasher looks loose.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #21 – April 29, 2018, 04:37:31 pm

Sorry, I understand the piece you're referring to but what is that component?

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #22 – April 29, 2018, 05:18:27 pm

Randy,

The perspective is kind of hard to make out, but is that not the upper exhaust manifold bolt for cylinder #1? Open the bed and look from the driver's side.

If so, look carefully for a cracked exhaust manifold and/or leak (black soot) between head and exhaust manifold. It was checked when you bought it and no problem, but that IS an issue with the Cummins engines.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #23 – April 29, 2018, 05:26:21 pm

Will do Brett. I know P.O. replaced it fairly soon before purchase. Can't get away just now...Talladega finish.

Re: The Next Issue to Troubleshoot

Reply #24 – April 29, 2018, 06:02:22 pm

I think John is referring to what looks to be a oil pan bolt.

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