Fuel hose replacement post

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Fuel hose replacement post

October 10, 2018, 08:50:18 pm

Well I am about to wrap up (hopefully) the fuel hose replacement on my coach and as promised a write up of my experiences. This is my experience, and yours may be different.
As you might recall, I had to do this when after running out of fuel on our first ever trip due to the PO not informing me that the fuel gauge was inop, and showing just over 1/2 tank, we ran out of fuel a few miles from home. This necessitated looking at the fuel gauge, and when doing so, saw a rats nest of hose above the tank, new looking gates hose. Since we purchased this coach, the smell of diesel fuel was prevalent throughout the interior and external bays. When asked about it, the po stated he thought he might have overfilled the coach once. I pulled on one hose and out it came, and sure enough it was nice and new looking. Gates 19b plantmaster multi purpose hose. Being the inquisitive kind of man, I asked google about it and was surprised to find that this hose was not rated for continuous contact with diesel fuel. I posted about this Here Thus set off a lot of research on correct fuel hose, replacement of it, etc... While my choice of hose would have been different, the truth was that to buy it in the lengths I needed didn't seem possible. I live in Corpus Christi, Texas, a huge area of oil and gas exploration and refineries, and thought for sure I could get some here but unless I wanted to buy a entire roll at 6 bucks per foot or more, forgetaboutit.
So my next choice was marine hose. I could get trident A1 grade marine hose for a good price online. Some I could order the size I needed, a few others I had to order 50 feet of it. No problem.
Taking the tank out was not as bad as I thought. First the tank was pretty empty. I didn't have to transfer fuel to a drum. After unbolting the 6 large bolts that holds it in, I removed the door, then the surrounding molding. Easy. I raised the coach then tilted it towards the passenger side, and tried to pull it out, but no go. It was in there tight. Next I went to Harbor freight, bought a cheap come along, and attaching it to my Jeep front base plate, slowly pulled it out. Even though Craneman had reminded me to watch out for the tank drain that hangs down, I forgot in the moment, and gouged out a chunk of the fiberglass in front of the drain. We pulled that tank out and put it on top of my crawler then wheeled it out of the way. Each line was identified by a colored zip tie.
I started with the generator first. 3/8 inch line to and from since that was what was there. I think in retrospect that 3/8 there and 1/4 back would have been ok as well, oh well. I attached each new hose to the old with 3/8th inch hose barb and pulled from the tank bay forward to the generator. Getting them into the generator bay was difficutl but doable. they enter it by a small hole on the passanger side. Some coaches have a fuel filter there, I did not. I suspect at some point there was, but no longer. There was a lot more hose there than was needed, even with the generator pulled out. I suspect the last person to change the lines used way more hose than they needed to and billed for it. Shame. I added a racor knockoff, in the propane bay, with a 30 micron filter and water separator bowl. This will make it easy to change it now. I also injected west systems epoxy into the foam around the hole I caused, and put new glass down. Its now water tight and painted the bay bottom with epoxy paint for bilges. Diesel resistant.
Moving along, I easily replaced the 1/4 inch fuel line with hose bought locally. I added a racor knockoff for the aquahot.. Mounting stuff like that took longer than running the fuel lines. Back and forth trips to Lowes, Hose of south Texas, etc consumed time.
Next I pulled the racor in the back, cut off the connector, attached a hose barb, duct taped them together and started pulling from the front to the rear. For me this was a mistake, but I took advice from the guys here that have done it. Would have been easier I think to pull it from back to front. I undid the screws that cover the fiberglass covers in the bays. These cover the fuel lines, air and water and a/c hose, propane lines, and wire harness. I tried to just take one side off, but the other side broke off. I found rat droppings chewed wires, and a mystery wire. In retrospect, I wish I had tried to pull the hose thru without tanking the covers off, cause getting them back on has been one of my biggest challenges. The mass of hose, wire, etc plus the weight of the cover when your on your back with 90 degree heat and trying to screw them back in has sucked. Getting the return engine line in was pretty much the same as the main engine hose. 5/8" and 1/2 inch. The 1/2 inch return line was recently changed I think, it looked good, but since I was doing it anyway replaced it to as I was not sure. The only thing I have not changed yet is from the fuel filter (first one) to the ECM and then from the ECM to the 2nd fuel filter, and then from the return on the engine to the fuel cooler. These will have to wait for another day. I also need to replace the last fuel filter on the engine and genset. I have not started it up yet. I have about 15 gal of fuel in it now, and will prime and start it tomorrow. I just finished buttoning up the covers. I'm pretty tired.... Any questions I will be sure to answer...
Oh total cost is probably around
469893   Trident, 365 Series, Type A1-15 Barrier Lined Marine Fuel Hose, 3/8", per Foot   1 to 2 Days   60   2.02   121.20
469894   Trident, 365 Series, Type A1-15 Barrier Lined Marine Fuel Hose, 5/16", per Foot   1 to 2 Days   5   2.02   10.10
Shipping   UPS Ground (UPS_GND)      1   0.00   0.00
Subtotal:   131.30
    Item   Product ID   Description   Qty   Price   Total
1   ZZ18616   Trident Marine Fuel Hose Barrier lined Type A1-15 1/2 ID x 50 Foot   1   $107.95   $107.95
2   ZZ18620   Trident Marine Fuel Hose Barrier lined Type A1-15 5/8 ID x 50 Foot   1   $119.95   $119.95

SubTotal:    $227.90
Shipping (Standard Ground):    $31.78
State Tax:    $0.00

plus 2 racor knock offs, fleetguard filter, hose barbs, attachments etc.
around $700 bucks. 2 weeks total ( but remember I work full time, and its hot as Texas here, and I wasn't in a hurry) I also did this job by myself, with my son helping once to help pull the tank out, and once to get it back in. The rest was me.
Oh yeah, getting the tank back in was a real pain in the arse. Very tight fit. Used a jack to get it back the final inches. New stainless steel bolts and washers too. Oh and new fuel gauge, that's another $135 bucks from Foretravel. But worth it. Now I can rely on the gauge.

Pictures follow.

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #1 – October 10, 2018, 08:53:01 pm

additional pics

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #2 – October 10, 2018, 09:08:14 pm

Nice write up with pictures is outstanding. Thank you for sharing.

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #3 – October 10, 2018, 09:52:50 pm

Bob, those covers were a problem for me also. I had to use some self tappers and make additional holes. I don't remember seeing anything like that plug, but if it was hooked to something I probably wouldn't have noticed it.
Nice job and much cheaper than my cost on fuel lines.

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #4 – October 11, 2018, 12:06:16 am

Yes difficult is the starting point on that I would say. In the end I put some timber to it and a hydraulic jack to get it up next to the ceiling, then started putting the self tapping screws back in. I had to put new holes in, and i'm sorry I didn't fill the old ones with thickened epoxy while the cover was off. Something tells me I might have to redo it though if it falls down when on the road. I put more screws in than before, but they don't bite in enough for me.

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #5 – October 11, 2018, 12:56:46 am

I used large area washers and like you more screws. That was 3 years ago and they have not fallen yet.

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #6 – October 11, 2018, 07:14:34 am

Bob, very nice looking job. I appreciate the in depth details you included. This job is on my todo list for this winter.

Larry

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #7 – October 11, 2018, 09:56:36 am

Nice job Bob, and a great one to have behind you as well! Did you use push lock style fittings with your trident hose?

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #8 – October 11, 2018, 11:08:09 am

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your write up with details on parts and photos, Bob. Also, congratulation on tackling this yourself. Often, we don't know what we can do until we make the attempt (also good to know your limitations). I will have to do this myself once my RV garage is built, probably in December - January. I think a motorcycle lift (cheap at HF) would be ideal for supporting and lifting the tank once out of the bay. I seem to be using this tool for everything except lifting my bikes.
One question at this time: You mentioned that you would have preferred not removing the plastic cover (covering the hose lines) in the bay. I thought that would be necessary to draw the lines through from the engine to the tank, due to hangers and ties holding them together.

Sven

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #9 – October 11, 2018, 11:12:27 am

You have to leave the old hoses in place and pull the new hoses through, to do it that way. After I did mine, someone posted how to do it that way. If I had read the post, that is the way I would have done mine. There was a fiberglass tool they used to fish the new hoses with.

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #10 – October 11, 2018, 11:21:04 am

I have one like this although mine has 4 - 5' sections. Every time I use it I am glad I have it. It was invaluable pulling two new 4/0 cables from the rear to the front of the coach
Greenlee Glow Rod, 5 ft to 15 ft, Fiberglass 540-15 | Zoro.com

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #11 – October 11, 2018, 11:38:30 am

Here is the post that came in too late for my hose change out. Wouldn't you know it would be Dave and Gary that came up with it.
Older coach fuel lines - 95 Foretravel - update

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #12 – October 11, 2018, 11:41:11 am

If you take the time to install expandable braided sleeving over your new hose, it makes it super easy to pull the hose to the back. While I have only used it for RG-6 and an HDMI cable, the procedure is the same. As I previously posted, I was able to feet the cable from the front console down under the front of the coach and then back to just in front of the engine. Once the drawer above the propane tank was removed and the galvanized channel in the compartment was dropped down, the cables were super easy to slide. With one person holding the cable so it would not kink at the driver's position, I could pull the cable from just in front of the rear tire without much effort all the way from the driver's position.

The expandable sleeving also protects from abrasion, rodents, etc. Our Detroit uses it to cover the electrical wiring as well as fuel hoses in the engine compartment. It's inexpensive to purchase and not that difficult to put over any hose or cable.

expandable braided sleeving | eBay

Pierce

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #13 – October 11, 2018, 05:36:37 pm

When using a double hose barb to connect the two hoses, they should follow the same path, and therefore unless they are securely banded together, which I did not find to be the case, will go thru no problem. The problem areas are the bulkheads, they get hung up there. So if your meeting resistance, stop and find the cause. This happened a few times. Once I continued to pull anyway and the hose came undone from the barb, but that wasn't a big deal as it was the generator hose, and I could reach in and get it.
A 25$ creeper from harbor freight was all I needed to hold the tank. Just take it out with the coach lowered and it's no problem. The creeper makes it easy to move the tank around as well.
I did use push lock fittings whenever possible. I used hose clamps for the aquahot and generator return. I didn't tighten them down hard.
Haven't been able to start her yet. Just tried and not getting fuel to the injectors so I need to prime it first. The racor 790R has a priming pump that I have to figure out how to use it, but just read up on it and once the batteries get a better charge will try again.
I only have 15-20 gal in the tank, but that should be enough. Should have done this sooner, before I buttoned everything back up.
Lesson learned. I need to change out the primary fuel filter as well, but need to move the coach to get to it as the engine is on the grass and the clearance is not good.

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #14 – October 11, 2018, 06:25:24 pm

Bob,

Make sure your engine feed hose didn't come off the generator fitting on the tank as it stops picking up a few inches up inside the tank and 15 to 20 gallons will only raise the tank level 3 or 4 inches.

Something like a MitiVac can pull diesel through the hose from the tank. You have to use a jar or something so the diesel does not flow directly into the MitiVac but goes into the jar.

Pierce

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #15 – October 11, 2018, 06:38:27 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – October 11, 2018, 06:25:24 pm

Bob,

Make sure your engine feed hose didn't come off the generator fitting on the tank as it stops picking up a few inches up inside the tank and 15 to 20 gallons will only raise the tank level 3 or 4 inches.

Something like a MitiVac can pull diesel through the hose from the tank. You have to use a jar or something so the diesel does not flow directly into the MitiVac but goes into the jar.

Pierce

Pierce, on ours the fittings are different sizes and can't be switched.

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #16 – October 11, 2018, 09:04:54 pm

Good write up.
FYI
I used a cheap garden hose/drill motor pump to prime. I adapted it to a male flare fitting, pumped fuel up to the engine, right through the filters. Started right up.

It is a job, all though on our 97. The covers are metal, was no hassle.

I pulled from rear to front, no problem. Removed the old hoses 1st, then used a snake.Plenty of room to pull them

Tank came right out, didn't need a come along. But I have heard of others with the same issue you had.

I also had a old mouse house, and chewed HWH wires, but no issue's, black tape fixed them.

Anyone wanting to do this, I also did a write up. No Aqua hot to deal with
Click here:

Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Your peace of mind will be worth it all.
Thanks again for your great write up with pictures.

CW

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #17 – October 20, 2018, 07:29:53 pm

So finally got the hose to prime today and ran the engine for around 20 min or so. There were some issues.
First my Racor 790R30 fuel filter/pump wouldn't work. Found the wiring harness to be badly corroded inside the connections that have a rubber grommet to keep moisture out. But its right above the start AGM batteries. I will have to order a new harness, but for now just spliced some wire into it. Then with the pump working, it wouldn't prime. Found a small kink in the hose right behind the filter, so reconfigured it, and now PRIME...
Took off the rear pebble stopper (or whatever its called) and crawled in thru there, cleaned the filter well, and replaced it with a fleetguard F1000 10 micron filter after filling it with fuel. Started right up. Yeah!!! Was getting worried that I would have to pull the tank again.
Now just have to put more fuel in to prime the generator and aqua hot. Just don't have 500 bucks in my pocket right now to do it... but going to Nag in November for my wife to attend the Ladies driving course, so got to come up with some bucks for that.
Nice to have a working engine again!
Bob

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #18 – May 22, 2020, 12:58:41 pm

Great story, hope I don't need to do it anytime soon, but at least I know how!

A few days ago I sourced my Fuel lines for the Aquahot from West Marine, which is a USCG Approved line. The original lines inside the unit were hard as a rock.

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #19 – May 22, 2020, 05:18:45 pm

Thank you Journey,Roam,Explore. Our "on the job training" and the valued input from others should help others in the future.

Important reminder for those having this maintenance ahead of them. Always safety block chassis and tires. Always slow down and rework installation of new hose if you have to pull hard or kink hose, as both weaken new hose greatly. In several pass through areas, I stopped, pulled hose partially, or all the way out to re enter new hose. Pierce's suggestion to use braid cover is excellent, I did not read his suggestion until after my project was completed. I bought several small silicone type cone plugs, from hose shop, to seal old lines when removing, prevented a smelly mess from the old diesel lines. I used short barbed coupler to carefully pull new hose thru with old hose, remembering stretching or kinking new hose greatly reduces its life and strength.

I am very thankful the local Gates distributor educated me on the different end fittings. If doing it over, I may have gone with the press on Gates hose type, it was more expensive, and reused the brass barb fittings. My choice and Gates hose distributor was to go with new steel swedged and non swedged fittings made by Gates. You must be very carefull to not over torque these two different fittings togeather, steel and brass, as the brass can be easily damaged by the steel. I have no regrets, as years later, I have no issues.

I did this totally by myself, maybe once asking a neighbor to help with lifting the fuel tank back in. One other recommendation. I knew I had a fuel problem with my hard start issue. So I eliminated the low tank issue by filling it, yes that was not such a great idea. I solved that by buying 3, 50 gal empty racing fuel empty drums, with a guaranteed buyback from local fuel distributor.

See my shared album photos below, as well as my original thread. Thank Journry, Roam,Explore, gacerace and all other forum members that contributed.

After a bad experience in a large HD truck long haul repair shop, spending over $1,500, trying to diag and repair hard start issue, (they recommended I replace the injection pump, I chose to send it to a known to me injection pump rebuild shop. They called me to say pump tested out perfect, with no issues.) I found my solution, after Larry or another Lewis asked me if I had replaced my lift pump or shutoff valve. That was when I found the cracked leaking line. That caring question from a forum member lead to solving my unsolvable problem. The adventure began. Forum members have saved my behind more than a few times.

My pictures.
Shared album - John Lewis - Google Photos

My orig post.
Fuel Line replacement

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #20 – May 22, 2020, 08:00:51 pm

So, the big question is why didn't Foretravel put steel fuel lines in like buses, cars etc? This fuel line problem will catch everyone eventually.

In the dark, cracks are hard to see and my go unnoticed.

Applying several PSI to a fuel line at the back with the cap off the tank so you can listen may solve the question if the fuel lines were put on backwards at the factory. If the bubbling stops at a quarter tank...

Buying a expandable braid covering for hose, HDMI, RG59/6, battery cables is a great way of making the hose super easy to slide, much harder to kink, more rodent resistant, etc. Even if the ends are on the hose/cable the braid will expand and you can push over the fitting and down the hose. When you pull on the other end, the braid will shrink to the hose size so the hose or wire is not loose inside. I was able to bring a HDMI cable to just in front of the rear tires from the cabin with just my wife watching from inside so it didn't wrap around anything. So the cable had to go forward, down through the floor, into the center area and then back. Naturally, I had to go under and feed it around corners, into the tin area, etc. but when I got it to the rear wheel area and needed a few feet more, I just gave a light pull and it pulled through easily.

OK, checking the fuel hose. If you can reach the feed hose for the engine at the tank, remove it and cap it. Put a Mityvac at the back and pull a vacuum on the hose. If the gauge on the Mityvac goes down, there is a leak in the hose.

$42.99 at HF before any discount: https://www.harborfreight.com/mityvac-vacuum-pump-39522.html

Cummins lift pump should be checked if no fuel line or filter leaks.

Video Mityvac at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6On9uS8eaaE

Pierce

Re: Fuel hose replacement post

Reply #21 – May 22, 2020, 08:59:39 pm

Thanks for that blast from the past reminder. Seem like a long time ago now. It's funny I just threw away the final return line hose that had been laying in my driveway for a while coiled up in a corner. I wish I had bought the sheath to go over the fuel line that would have been a good idea. I have still haven't replaced the hoses that go between the fuel filter and engine. I may just have a engine shop too that cuz it's a really tight fit. Since I haven't really been driving it in the last year or two really it's not been an issue.
It just goes to remind us that when we buy these things in a previous owner says I did this and I did that that you do have to actually check and make sure that what they did or had done was good enough, unless you factor in the cost of replacing it. But it was a good experience to do it, and while running out of fuel sucked and so close to home, my wife and I was able to get the engine started probably within an hour to an hour and a half without calling anybody for help, which was a good experience for the two of us.

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