Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Topic: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal? (Read 2351 times) previous topic - next topic

Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

April 25, 2019, 05:36:23 pm

See photo for metal shavings on the front wheel oiling bearing magnet. Is this amount normal?

The bearings, races and seals were just replaced 2,200 miles ago. The oil quality looks good.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #1 – April 25, 2019, 05:45:39 pm

First thing I would do is call the shop and find out how good he cleaned everything,if that is from 2,200 miles ago you have a problem.Should be no metal.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #2 – April 25, 2019, 06:04:58 pm

Agree......trouble ez a commin.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #3 – April 25, 2019, 06:13:14 pm

The oil quality might look good as the magnet took all the "metal flake" out of suspension. I would talk to him plus call other shops that do this kind of work. That much metal might be found in a transmission drain plug magnet after many thousands of miles. If the parts were really clean, I would not expect a new set of inner/outer wheel bearings to generate this many shavings in many thousands of miles let alone 2200 miles.

This this the bearing you were recently having a problem with?

Pierce

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #4 – April 25, 2019, 06:19:00 pm

Excellent work checking it.

Most would have waited for a failure.

I'll send you the password for viewing my travel slides from the last 70 years.

Pierce

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #5 – April 25, 2019, 06:29:26 pm

Need IMMEDIATE SERVICING (replacing of both bearings and races).

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #6 – April 25, 2019, 07:26:27 pm

Good thing you checked it. Why did you have it out after only 2,200 miles? Were you having problems?

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #7 – April 25, 2019, 07:56:52 pm

Quote from: Tim – April 25, 2019, 05:36:23 pm

See photo for metal shavings on the front wheel oiling bearing magnet. Is this amount normal?

This bearing, race and seals were just replaced 2,200 miles ago. The oil quality looks good.

Should read "The bearings, races and seal . . ."
I'd go to a different shop and source the bearings and races myself. There are different quality levels for bearing specified by precision. That and I'd replace the cleaned plug and check it again soon.

When in doubt go to the source for information.
Precision Tapered Roller Bearings | The Timken Company

SKF is another name I trust.

Tapered roller bearings

Happy reading.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #8 – April 25, 2019, 10:59:17 pm

According to axletech, this is normal, especially during break-in.

https://www.axletech.com/at-admin/resources/analyzing-contaminants-on-magnetic-drain-and-fill-plugs-v1-002.pdf

The metal filings should be removed whenever the cap is removed.

I also asked Red Tractor for his advice.

I'll also jack the axle, spin the wheel and listen for unusual bearing noise.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #9 – April 26, 2019, 12:54:54 am

What kind of a front wheel bearing cap has a magnet? Is this in place of our red plastic Stemco plug?

I am not aware of a magnet in the front Stemco hub.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #10 – April 26, 2019, 01:31:31 am

That is not normal at all for a front wheel bearing. The link is referring to a differential axle bearing where gear wear occurs. That metal had to have been left in the hub when that front bearings and races were changed. Probably not a major issue as the front taper bearing are tough. and now most of the metal has been captured. I was a heavy equipment mechanic in the Operating Engineers for 22 years and never found that kind of metal after changing bearings and races. I always flushed the metal out of the hubs on a catastrophic failure. Not necessary on just seal and bearing changes.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #11 – April 26, 2019, 09:09:52 am

I'm with Barry on this one,where exactly is this magnetic plug and how big is it?

?
That post from that bearing maker does not pertain to that bearing.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #12 – April 26, 2019, 09:12:15 am

Quote from: craneman – April 26, 2019, 01:31:31 am

That is not normal at all for a front wheel bearing. The link is referring to a differential axle bearing where gear wear occurs. That metal had to have been left in the hub when that front bearings and races were changed. Probably not a major issue as the front taper bearing are tough. and now most of the metal has been captured. I was a heavy equipment mechanic in the Operating Engineers for 22 years and never found that kind of metal after changing bearings and races. I always flushed the metal out of the hubs on a catastrophic failure. Not necessary on just seal and bearing changes.

For the rest of the world, some additional explanation regarding gears. Hypoid gears are defined by mathematics that need to realized in the real world, so there is some wearing in needed in practice. Same thing for spiral bevel gears, so there are some fuzzies that are flushed away by the lubricating oil.

Ball bearings, roller bearings and tapered roller bearings may have "fuzzies" left from the grinding process but not on any bearing I'd buy.

FWIW, Chrysler Corporation developed "super finishing" in 1939 to combat Brinelling of its product's wheel bearings when being transported by rail car. Removing the fuzzies from the race grinding process eliminated the transport damage.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #13 – April 26, 2019, 10:05:34 am

Lots of bearing grades. Usually not that much more to move up a couple of grades. Bearings in skate boards and inline skates are a lot more expensive than you would think they would be.

Just an idea: Wheels Mfg Sealed Bearing Grades

Pierce

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #14 – April 26, 2019, 11:26:57 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – April 26, 2019, 10:05:34 am

Lots of bearing grades. Usually not that much more to move up a couple of grades. Bearings in skate boards and inline skates are a lot more expensive than you would think they would be.

Just an idea: Wheels Mfg Sealed Bearing Grades

Pierce

The skate board people are willing to pay for angular contact bearings because they can feel the difference in stability. I've never stayed on a skate board long enough to find out for myself. Once upon a time I did order a $20 bearing, and when asked relied that it was "only and idler." After THAT bearing failed, not having lasted very long I had to admit to my mistake and promise to never ever try to save the company money that way again.
Using old school terminology, the lowest grade angular contact bearing we purchased was ABEC 7.

FWIW, the French company Wirth & Gruffat used precision tapered roller bearings in their drilling spindles. Lead time on those can be 6 months.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #15 – April 26, 2019, 03:58:25 pm

I did two things:

1. Jacked the front right axle and spun the wheel: No bearing noise.
2. Wiggled the tire in the X, Y and Z directions: tight as a drum.

I witnessed the bearing job, done by a seasoned, trusted professional. The spindle, races and bearings were cleaned with a pro shop (lint-free) rag and cleaned with a pre cleaner prior to assembly. Then clean gear oil was added.

See photos of:

A. Hub seal assembly. The round cap has the magnet.
B. Receipt for parts. They are from a pro truck shop: FleetPride and are made by NTN (Bower) and Timken.

I'll check for metal in a few hundred miles, but I doubt there will be much more metal. I wonder if the bearings needed to "Break-in" to their cages / holders?

I appreciate this forum's advice.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #16 – April 26, 2019, 04:02:43 pm

But was the hub flushed out? The rotor assy.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #17 – April 26, 2019, 05:30:11 pm

In case of an engine failure or an engine block being bored, I was always taught that cleaning solvent would not remove all the small metal filings and the block needed to be cleaned with Tide or another HD detergent to remove everything. Then I remember all the trouble Ford had trying to get their pushrod 427s to last 24 hours for the Le Mans race. They blew up one after another until they constructed a ultra sonic cleaner large enough for the blocks to fit in. Even after the normal cleaning, they would still get a teaspoon full of particles after the ultra sonic did it's work. We all know how successful the big Fords were for many years after that.

Several good big rig wheel bearing posts online. One failure was traced to "counterfeit" bearings being used.

After any failure leaving metal particles behind, it's good to really make sure every crevice has been cleaned out so absolutely nothing is left behind. Just seems strange to me that new precision bearings with chrome or hardened surfaces would leave that many metal shavings in the magnet.

Pierce

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #18 – April 26, 2019, 05:45:11 pm

Quote from: Tim – April 26, 2019, 03:58:25 pm

I'll check for metal in a few hundred miles, but I doubt there will be much more metal. I wonder if the bearings needed to "Break-in" to their cages / holders?

I appreciate this forum's advice.

Precision bearings don't break in, they wear out. That being said, 5, 50, 500 miles is a sound game plan. That is to say, check for metal at 5 miles, an additional 50 and so on.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #19 – April 26, 2019, 10:19:43 pm

The magnet is there for a reason. We operate in the real world..pragmatic solutions are more important than the theoretical perfection of impossible-to-obtain cleanliness.

If it were my wheel, I'd wipe it off and check it in a few hundred miles. I (meaning I did it myself) just replaced my front wheel seals. I preloaded them too! (there's a thread about that)

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #20 – April 27, 2019, 01:22:16 am

Anyone know of a magnet plug that fits where our red plastic Stemco plug fits??

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #21 – April 27, 2019, 03:00:27 am

Yes on washing hot tanked blocks with tide immediately after getting it home, then rustoleum immediately as the iron rusted

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #22 – April 27, 2019, 06:42:08 am

Another tip I got from YouTube is to buy a powerful button magnet and periodically rub it on the sight glass. If it picks up metal particles, you have a problem.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #23 – April 27, 2019, 07:46:04 am

Were these wheels changed from Hub piloted to stud piloted?
Noticed that the hubs have the tabs broken off.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #24 – April 27, 2019, 09:10:51 am

Quote from: Tim – April 26, 2019, 03:58:25 pm

Wiggled the tire in the X, Y and Z directions: tight as a drum.

I don't know what brand of axle you have but on Rockwell steering axles, the spec is 0.001" to 0.005". I can't tell the difference without putting a dial indicator on the hub. Here is an excellent video (in 3 parts) on the entire process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8-XL4E4m7o

He is working on a tag axle but the process is the same; just the specs change.

TOM

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