Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Topic: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal? (Read 3003 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #25 – April 27, 2019, 01:01:06 pm

Traveler,mine look the same way,just how it's made,we have the red cap style cover.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #26 – April 27, 2019, 02:50:37 pm

The stemco man mentions twice the legally required measureable clearances.

The clearance induces a small dead spot in the steering, a small preload eliminates that dead spot

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #27 – April 27, 2019, 06:15:28 pm

For what it's worth, Google is my friend.

Stemco Magnetic Fill Plug brings up:

1696356-4195367-4195Sentinel Oil - "P" w/ magnetic fill plug1

Located at: http://www.stemco.com/qbin/397.pdf

Art

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #28 – April 28, 2019, 10:31:03 am

Reading this thread has me thinking out loud.
"I've never had a magnet anywhere near my front bearings on my grease packed hubs on any car, much less my oil bath bearings of the 2 foretravels ive owned in the last 8 years." Hard to really say what is "normal". I loved my skateboards boards back in the 70s, and remember how many yards i had to mow to buy the fancy sealed bearing wheels of the day. I'm really curious what the consensus is concerning normal "bearing dust/shavings caught by these magnetic covers... I'll have to get a pair

David

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #29 – April 28, 2019, 10:49:27 am

Those shavings were a result of a previous failure in my opinion. I have over 300,000 miles on my '81 International and I have changed the seals each time I did a brake job and never had any shavings in the oil. The oil will look like it has graphite in it after 100,000 miles but nothing that would look like what Tim had. I still have the original bearings on the truck by the way.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #30 – April 28, 2019, 11:27:30 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – April 27, 2019, 02:50:37 pm

The stemco man mentions twice the legally required measureable clearances.

The clearance induces a small dead spot in the steering, a small preload eliminates that dead spot

Please define "small dead spot" and "small preload"

Also, are you saying the legal requirements are to be ignored?
Thanks!

TOM

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #31 – April 28, 2019, 11:27:43 am

A dial indicator was used when tightening the spindle nuts. I used to do this by feel, but now that I've seen a professional mechanic do the measurement correctly, I'll have to buy a dial indicator for home use. Hello Harbor Freight.

By the way, I just dipped a magnetic pickup tool in the oil bath. It did not pick up anything. I know this is just anecdotal.

I also talked to my truck mechanic friend and he said it should be disassembled, checked, and while I was at it, put in a new set of bearings. (and maybe races).

Personally, I am a "wait and see" person. Fortunately I will only put a few hundred miles on the rig until July 15th. Then I plan a 2000 mile trip and will make sure no more metal is being produced before going too far.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #32 – April 28, 2019, 12:44:01 pm

My opionion would be skip harbor freight and check ebay and the pawn shops for a Starrett or Miyotou indicator and get a dial
not a digital for the bearing.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #33 – April 28, 2019, 01:31:19 pm

Tom if you watch the stemco mans 30 minute video you may be able to read between the lines when he discusses how the measurable amount of endplay came about. If you feel more comfortable using the legally defensible in court adjustment then please use it.

My Foretravel dealer line mechanic for many years fixed countless Unihome steering wander and dead spots complaints long ago by preloading the wheel bearings. Hundreds is what Vincent told me. He also is the one maintaining Barry's coach in Seal Beach, Ca.

My U320 has had every front end part checked, adjusted, lubed and/or replaced since we got it.

Had legally loose bearings, preloaded then loose again. .001 and .003 adjustment have reintroduced a small dead spot in the steering most would think is perfect.

Except if they had driven the same coach with preloaded bearings.

My Cummins shop service writer said no way. Vincent and I and a lot of Foretravel owners said yes, it's noticeable.

The Michelin tires seem to have been designed to self steer straight with the directional sipes in the tires edges.

Seems to work.

With the preload slight pressure on the steering wheels edge can correct any steering departure angle.

With the measureable adjustment a small movement of the steering wheels edge is necessary to get to where additional movement changes the coaches path.

No "play" versus a little play is noticeable. At least to me, on my coach with the Michelin's.

I posted here long ago about this and that I was going to test the difference.

To me on my coach with my tires it's noticeable.

I am not in the truck repair business where if sued that I need to verify a certain adjustment endplay was used so my attorney, in court, has a defensible DOT approved number.

Watch the video. See his face and word inflection when he mentions the .001-.005 method. I did. Lots of good info there if you are interested. Read between the lines.....

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #34 – April 28, 2019, 08:31:47 pm

Bearings are designed for preload. This has been discussed and I think I provided links/engineering reference in past threads. For example, here is one: Selecting preload

Here's a non-committal article: Preload Vs Endplay: Understanding Different Bearings Settings

The reason preload isn't "the standard" is because it is difficult to create a procedure to get a direct measurement.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #35 – April 28, 2019, 09:35:00 pm

Bob,
I'm not trying to argue, just looking for information. I have owned a trucking company 40 years ago and have replaced dozens of driveline componets. I am sorry to say things didn't always get done as precisely as they do now. That said, I usually tried to use the OEM specs whenever possible, except in engine settings. We hot rodded a lot of stuff back then, sometimes with catastrophic results! I will grant you for the sake of argument that you can tell the difference between preloaded and endplay adjusted bearings. I just wanted to know what measurement you are using. When preloading, do you use a calibrated torque wrench? If so, what value do you use? I may try it just to see if I can tell a difference. Timkin recommends the same procedure that WM used in the video. You can read about it here:
https://www.timken.com/pdf/10410_Manual%20Wheel%20Bearing%20Adj%20Procedures%20Sell%20Sheet.pdf
The Rockwell field maintenance manual says the same thing.

I'm certainly no attorney, not do I want to open that can of worms; however, if you have a wheel bearing failure and anyone can prove you knowingly used a non recommended procedure, I'm guessing you would have trouble. Of course, if you have that kind of failure, a lawsuit may be the least of your problems.

Again, I am just looking for info here. I am not saying what is right or wrong.

Krush: That is really MORE info than I wanted! LOL!

TOM

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #36 – April 28, 2019, 10:44:40 pm

There is No calibrated adjustment to preload wheel bearings. Do not preload any wheel bearings. Just an observation after selling and servicing and driving high line rv's since 1984,

If you need a calibration this is may not be for you.

Maybe I am wrong but my memory says that tapered roller bearings were always preloaded. Am I incorrect?

I hesitated to post this but I said I would long ago.

I have personally hadthe bearings preloaded of hundreds of rv's over the years without any issues other than the coach steered better.

If you do not feel comfortable doing this do not do this.

I am intending to take my coach with the .001-.003 bearings back to Vincent to have him preload them again.

Done this dual test many times in the rv biz starting long ago always with the same results.

Depends on how sensitive you are I suppose. Tire pressure variations of more than a few pounds are noticeable IF every other variations are eliminated.

My store did well selling critically setup driving coaches, if you drove a unihome or unicoach brand new congratulations to you.

I want that "feel" for a fraction of the money. I like driving the coach from the bottom of the wheel

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #37 – April 29, 2019, 12:01:09 am

As mentioned by krush, tapered roller bearings are designed to run under preload. As I recall from Timken engineering data, that only applies when run in an oil bath. Determining correct preload for a given assembly is not so simple a thing for us average folks. Preload is a given amount of force with the intent of keeping the rollers and races from losing contact with each other. Simply saying that X bearing set requires Y preload in any situation won't work. Speed, load, housing elasticity (hub), shaft elongation (spindle), and temperature all contribute to determining what is the ideal preload for a given assembly. Calculating this using math is beyond my technocracy. However, one could determine the correct dimensional preload for an assembly by using the bearing manufactures preload data for the speed, load, and operating temperature. Using a load transducer (or short doughnut cylinder with a gauge), and a dial indicator, increase dimensional preload (in our instance, with the spindle nut) until the force preload is as desired. Note the dimensional change on the dial indicator. Knowing the thread pitch of the spindle/nut, calculate the Deg, Min to turn the nut to achieve same dimensional preload. Summary: Dimensional preload is the amount of deflection in an assembly that achieves a desired amount of force. In a fairly compact, rigid assembly, such as our hub/spindle, a small dimensional change will effect a large change in pressure: NOT very forgiving, and a hit or miss situation with typical spindle nut retention. I'm not saying don't run preload (I do), but for us mere mortals, without a precise means of measuring force preload, or experience in knowing that "feel", you're most likely better off (AND SAFER) running a minimal (easy to measure) clearance.

EDIT:
I should have mentioned, there's another, easier, way to determine correct preload with a torque wrench. Some manufactures will provide the amount of torque required to rotate a properly preloaded assembly. Since tapered roller bearings are "zero scrub", this amount will be very low: typically in inch-ounces for bearing in our size range. The amount will be slightly higher for new bearings vs. run-in ones. Using this method, the torque wrench replaces the subjective "feel".

Greg

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #38 – April 29, 2019, 07:47:52 am

Quote from: FourTravelers – April 27, 2019, 07:46:04 am

Were these wheels changed from Hub piloted to stud piloted?
Noticed that the hubs have the tabs broken off.

Tim seems to have a different cap on the wheel than most of us have. Tim, was the cap changed when the bearings were changed? Maybe this is something new from Stemco. Looking at the picture, the magnetic is a mounted on the side and not in the end plug which is gray rather than red.

My wheels too have the tabs broken off. I have always wondered why someone did that. How many others have the tabs broken off?

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #39 – April 29, 2019, 12:24:06 pm

Jerry, my rig came like that when I bought it three years ago. It looks new. Definitely not OEM. Here's are some photos of the bearing job as it was being done, FYI, including the dial indicator measurement. The photos of the darkened spindle are before the cleanup. The spindle was shiny after using a crocus cloth and cleaning with brake cleaner.

Also FYI: The steering on my rig always seems touchy. It drives straight only on smooth, level roads with no wind. Otherwise, I have to constantly provide corrections for things like road slant, cars passing me, small pot holes, etc...

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #40 – April 29, 2019, 12:26:47 pm

Quote from: John44 – April 28, 2019, 12:44:01 pm

My opionion would be skip harbor freight and check ebay and the pawn shops for a Starrett or Miyotou indicator and get a dial
not a digital for the bearing.

X2 Tim, working as a machinist for 20 plus years you really don't want to use a HF indicator on something like that, They are fine (to quote a friend) if you can deal with "yard stick close"
Just my 2c woth
Chris

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #41 – April 29, 2019, 12:38:08 pm

I was just trying to provoke the Forum into comments about Harbor Freight.

I agree with you. HF is good for some things but you have to buy high-quality stuff for the critical measurements.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #42 – April 29, 2019, 12:41:26 pm

Tim, don't get me wrong I visit them (HF) quite frequently just not on the really important stuff!
Chris

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #43 – April 29, 2019, 01:08:05 pm

The tabs are for helping install the wheels.(on stud centric wheel).
If the bearings are not the same OD;
IMHO all of the bearing narlies will wind up in the large section of the hub , at the inner seal. As long as gravity is working , There should be no reason for them to wind up on the outer plug area. You have to clean the hub with a tooth brush and blow gun to get the narlies out of the seal area.

The dark black oil residue on the nut scares me a little. Definitely overheated the bearings.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #44 – April 29, 2019, 01:09:34 pm

The tabs are what center hub centering wheels.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #45 – May 11, 2019, 10:41:31 am

Those nuts in the pic look like the stock OEM meritor setup. I removed mine (and stored in a box) and installed the Stemco 448-4836 Pro-Torque Spindle Nut. I paid $29 each for the pro-torque nuts off Amazon at the time, and it was the cheapest I could find (Nov 2018). I really like the pro-torque, and recommend it. Stemco has another new version that is automatic locking that doesn't require installing the spring lock, but it seems complex and is surely more $$$. Pro-Torq® Axle Spindle | STEMCO

After a little bit of research, I decided to go with SKF Scotseal Plus XL wheel seals. They are unitized seals, and hand installed...literately just push them in place on the hub by hand. I found some for decent price on eBay and bout a spare front and rear. I think these numbers are correct for my RV: Rear:SKF 47691 $34.95 Front: SKF 35058 $26.34 Prices vary a lot for these seals (NAPA is $$$).

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #46 – May 11, 2019, 07:18:16 pm

My guru buddy removed my seals that rode on the hub and reinstalled the oem ones with the separate inner sealing ring

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #47 – June 04, 2019, 03:33:30 pm

The oil was darker than I expected and more metal appeared on the magnet, so I pulled the wheel off and inspected the bearings and races. To the naked eye, they look fine. However, in the detailed iPhone photos below, tiny scratches appear on all the races, indicating dirt was scoring them. Should I go ahead and replace the bearings and races? Should they look totally polished?

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #48 – June 04, 2019, 03:44:45 pm

Are you sure the races were changed,the first one looks pretty dinged up,polish the spindle with a scrubby,will look better.

Re: Metal on Front Wheel Oiling Bearing Magnet. Normal?

Reply #49 – June 04, 2019, 04:18:06 pm

Yes, the bearings and races were replaced with high-quality parts 2,200 miles ago.

Affiliate Notice