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Topic: Lots of White Smoke (Read 7821 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #40 –
Quote from: The Soft Boulders –
I've had the "get thereitis" a few times.  Luckily on these type of projects I have so many things to learn it keeps me from getting too ahead of myself. 


Anything like this requires surgical cleanliness.  I used to have a friend who seemingly loved to clean as long as I did the bits that required finesse.  I miss him.  All the more so when I looked closely at my engine for the first time.

As far as the Linotype goes, their era ended in the 1970s with the advent of computers.  A Linotype and its competitor the Intertype was a 2800 pound mechanical typewriter that composed matrices, metal type molds, in a line then cast that line with molten type metal and delivered it neatly to a galley.  I can set hand type, I can even distribute hand type, I choose not to do so.

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #41 –
Boulder,have turned my engine over to run the valves without timing tool,take the 4 small bolts off the outermost pulley on the
harmonic balancer,you can then see 4 bigger bolts,you can turn the engine over with a socket on one bolt if you go slow or get 2
extra long bolts and use a prybar,go slow to allow the compression to dissipate.

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #43 –
Quote from: John44 –
Boulder,have turned my engine over to run the valves without timing tool,take the 4 small bolts off the outermost pulley on the
harmonic balancer,you can then see 4 bigger bolts,you can turn the engine over with a socket on one bolt if you go slow or get 2
extra long bolts and use a prybar,go slow to allow the compression to dissipate.
I will have to try that, it is much closer to the timing pin than the flywheel. 

I have a question on rotating the engine at the flywheel.  Would I need to turn the ratchet counterclockwise in order to rotate the engine clockwise?  The barring tool access is at the lower left side of the block.  In my mind if I turn the ratchet clockwise then the flywheel would be spinning counterclockwise.

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #44 –
You'll be able to follow which way it turns,it's a slow process,just make sure it's turning the same direction when it's running.
The name of the aftermarket overflo valve is tork tek,they have the valve and a adaptor to install a guage.The stock spring and
bearing wears over time and creates low pressure.Are there any marks on your harmonic balancer that anyone made to indicate tdc?,sometimes they will mark it.

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #45 –
Quote from: The Soft Boulders –
The guy at cummins was saying something similar about the overflow valve actually causing under fueling.  I haven't done a lot of digging on the overflow valve yet but will definitely do some more research on it.  The fuel pressure gauge would be a nice addition for sure!
Overflow valve is on the back side and next to the block on most Bosch  P injection pumps. The little ball inside gets little microscopic valleys worn in it and it lets too much fuel go back to the tank and not enough in the injection pump itself. Super easy to change and not that expensive. There is just a spring and ball inside. As I recall, I just added a "T" in the outlet of the secondary filter and screwed the gauge into that. You need a gauge that is filled with liquid or the needle bounces around and hard to get a reading.

Pierce

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #46 –
Got the exhaust manifold put back on this morning, going to wait until I can properly torque the bolts before I put the turbo back on.  Had to tap every bolt hole in the head because the bolts did not want to go in.  There's no way I could have gotten an accurate torque reading with the how difficult the bolts wanted to go in.  Tried to find TDC by using the harmonic balancer to rotate the engine.  I could not get the pin to locate in the gear.  Maybe the barring tool will allow us to rotate the engine more smoothly.  The timing in is between the injection pump and the air compressor and is a real pain to reach.  It was seized and had to be taken out and cleaned so it would slide back and forth smoothly.  Any ideas on getting the timing pin to seat?

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #47 –
Quote from: The Soft Boulders –
Tried to find TDC by using the harmonic balancer to rotate the engine.  I could not get the pin to locate in the gear.  Maybe the barring tool will allow us to rotate the engine more smoothly.  The timing in is between the injection pump and the air compressor and is a real pain to reach.  It was seized and had to be taken out and cleaned so it would slide back and forth smoothly.  Any ideas on getting the timing pin to seat?
The barring tool will make it easier to find the seat for the timing pin.  It's real easy to skip over the hole.

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #49 –
Just an idea,if you still have trouble you could take the injectors out to relieve compression,not sure how easy or hard that would be.

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #50 –
Quote"Had to tap every bolt hole in the head because the bolts did not want to go in.  There's no way I could have gotten an accurate torque reading with the how difficult the bolts wanted to go in".

I hope you were aware of what type of threads you had metric or sae. Someone had used sae threaded bolts on my exhaust manifold that required metric threaded bolts.

Roland

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #51 –


Quote from: Roland Begin –
I hope you were aware of what type of threads you had metric or sae. Someone had used sae threaded bolts on my exhaust manifold that required metric threaded bolts.
Roland

Ouch.  Also best to use the specific bolts from Cummins I am told.  Properly  heat treated, right stretch etc.  Yep, they metric.  And somewhat expensive.  There is some nickel/moly antisieze good for 2500 degrees.  Manifold bolt wars, lived through em  too.

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #52 –
Quote from: Chuck Pearson –

Ouch.  Also best to use the specific bolts from Cummins I am told.  Properly  heat treated, right stretch etc.  Yep, they metric.
Some monkey used bolts from Ace hardware on our Cummins. Yes I'm serious not joking. As a matter of fact the money broke a bolt and replaced it by drilling a hole and putting in a nut and a bolt. How's that for an idiot?

Rolls d

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #53 –
Quote from: Roland Begin –
Quote"Had to tap every bolt hole in the head because the bolts did not want to go in.  There's no way I could have gotten an accurate torque reading with the how difficult the bolts wanted to go in".

I hope you were aware of what type of threads you had metric or sae. Someone had used sae threaded bolts on my exhaust manifold that required metric threaded bolts.

Roland
The tap size is M10-1.5, it is the same as the studs for the turbo.  The bolts are not cheap either,  for two exhaust bolts, four studs,four nuts and one turbo gasket was $150. 

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #54 –
Never could find TDC with the timing pin.  Pulled the valve cover and found TDC on compression stroke by dropping a valve on cylinder no. 1 and rotating the engine until the cylinder bumped it.  Used a dial indicator to measure .004 of deflection on the valve and marked the spot on the harmonic balancer then loosened the valve, rotated the cylinder past the valve, turned the valve back down to the same spot and the repeated the process in reverse.  Splitting the difference between the two marks on the balancer should give me exact TDC.  There is no way to get a finger in the timing pin hole to try and feel for the timing slot in the gear.  Going to call Cummins today and make sure that this method will work before I proceed further.

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #55 –
Question for my own enlightenment:

Why is finding TDC on this engine so complicated?  Why can't they just put timing marks on the harmonic balancer like they do on all the gasoline engines?  There may be a simple answer to this, but I have no experience with the process of "timing" diesel engines.

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #56 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Question for my own enlightenment:

Why is finding TDC on this engine so complicated?  Why can't they just put timing marks on the harmonic balancer like they do on all the gasoline engines?  There may be a simple answer to this, but I have no experience with the process of "timing" diesel engines.
I don't know for sure, This is the first time I've had to find the timing on any type of engine.  The timing pin would make it pretty simple.  It seems that there is some difference of opinion out there about how precisely the timing needs to be measured. 

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #57 –
Quote from: The Soft Boulders –
I don't know for sure, This is the first time I've had to find the timing on any type of engine.  The timing pin would make it pretty simple.  It seems that there is some difference of opinion out there about how precisely the timing needs to be measured. 

Regarding the precision of ignition timing, with the advent of computers and the search for engine efficiency, we find that ignition timing is specific for engine load, engine speed, and doesn't present as a smooth curve.  Your computer controlled diesel engine is quiet(er) because the electronic fuel injection squirts in a tiny amount of fuel before delivering that which is required by power demand.  That diesel knock we all knew and loved was simply delayed ignition.  Cetane rating is simply a method of telling us how easily diesel fuel will ignite.

Ford's "A" model uses a timing pin to find top dead center.  The Ford timing pin drops into a dimple in the timing gear.  It too is difficult to find, the Cummins all the more so because the timing pin needs to drop into a tightly fitted hole.  Slow and steady wins the race.

FWIW, my plans for the day are called on account of rain. I was going to work on reducing 5 32-quart containers of stuff with the ultimate goal of having everything we need stored in the bays.
 
Before we start traveling again, along with all of the other things you do to an undocumented used purchase, I want to:
Find my engine serial number.
Purchase a service manual.
Confirm that the cold start timing advance is behaving properly, id est, going back to normal once the engine is warm.

My ride height is fine.  Money is set aside for new torsion bars and shackles.

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #58 –
Quote from: Old Toolmaker –
Find my engine serial number.
Location of data plate (with ESN) on my C8.3 - if you have the B5.9 it may be in the same place:

Standing at the back, looking at engine.  See the air conditioning compressor - directly below that is a flat sheet metal engine cover with the "oil fill" hole in the middle. At the top right corner of this cover, on the edge, you'll see the black engine data plate.  The fuel injection pump is directly behind it.

Once you have the ESN, you might like to visit Cummins QuickServe.com and Cummins Parts.com.  You can register your engine for free, and find a wealth of valuable data pertaining to your specific engine.  This is the exact same info the high paid Cummins techs see on their shop computer.

Cummins QuickServe Online

Genuine Cummins Parts

Re: Lots of White Smoke

Reply #59 –
Injection pump timing was spot on with engine TDC.  I don't know what else to do.  I found a mechanic to come and loom at it today.  I feel like a failure :(