Need suggestions. Broke down

Topic: Need suggestions. Broke down (Read 2227 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #25 – October 08, 2019, 04:09:13 pm

Because it happened right away and not gradually "Drove 450 miles at 55 to 65 no problem. Turned off main highway to get to campground. Suddenly lost power. Saw small amounts of black smoke from exhaust and couldn't get over 45."

It sure does seem like a hose came lose somewhere. Check all the air intake hoses, some of them even run under the engine to the air tank inlet on the compressor.

PB

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #26 – October 08, 2019, 04:26:57 pm

On the ISX600 it always is showing boost, from idle all the way up the load curve. At idle is may only be showing 2-4 lbs of boost but boost none the less.

I do not know if the 400ISL is the same or not. Others that may have that engine may know. If motor is always making boost, with engine idling you might be able to go around and hear or feel an air leak.

I would think to have no boost and blowing out black smoke it should be a really good leak and easy to fine.

Does that engine have a computer controlled waste gate, that may be stuck open?

Are you showing any error messages? I would think with what you are saying it should have thrown a lot of error codes.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #27 – October 08, 2019, 04:36:46 pm

My 2007 400ISL registers 0.3 lbs at idle. Basically no boost. So you might need a little throttle and a spray bottle of water to mist the hoses and see if there is a leak.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #28 – October 08, 2019, 05:35:10 pm

Mobile mechanic on the way. Phone diagnosis leaning towards turbo the turbo.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #29 – October 08, 2019, 05:59:46 pm

Boost sensor?

Roland

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #30 – October 08, 2019, 06:23:06 pm

Larry I sent you a pm

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #31 – October 08, 2019, 06:29:29 pm

I had similar situation happen to me while traveling an Interstate between Phoenix and Tucson last fall. First saw black smoke, then lost a lot of power. Temp gauges were reading just fine. I was on an uphill slope and just didn't have the power to keep pulling. Cat dealer in Tucson found a split boot. Replaced that and all was well

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #32 – October 08, 2019, 07:59:43 pm

Wish I were so lucky. Turbo blown. Waiting for the bad news. Been a rough trip.

Larry

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #33 – October 08, 2019, 08:03:39 pm

John, I haven't seen anything.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #34 – October 08, 2019, 08:13:00 pm

I don't claim to be a "turbo mechanic" but it sure seems strange to me that a turbo would "blow" when slowing down to turn into a campground. I understand that all was "ok" before, no issues with loss of power or black smoke? If you were climbing a long grade or pulling hard with high EGT's that would make more sense. Loss of an air filter or some object drawn in the turbo inlet possibly but that would be easy to determine by removing the inlet hose.
Let us know what the tech says before spending lots of $$$$$$.
Hope it's not the turbo..........

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #35 – October 08, 2019, 08:18:40 pm

Turbo replacement could run you three coach bucks for a factory rebuilt. We replace our turbos on our fleet trucks every 60M as preemptive. Also keeping a very clean intake filter can extend life.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #36 – October 08, 2019, 08:51:56 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – October 07, 2019, 10:19:26 pm

First place to look it the pre-screen filter.
Diagnostics/history on your VMSpc too.

So just where is the prescreen filter ? I will go out and look at mine tomorrow. If I pull it out, will it let air in the system that has to be purged somehow??

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #37 – October 08, 2019, 08:53:41 pm

Quote from: Twig – October 08, 2019, 12:11:55 pm

Don't overlook the fuel shut off solenoid.

I won't overlook the fuel shut off solenoid because I have no idea what it looks like or where it may be located. Inquiring minds want to know.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #38 – October 08, 2019, 11:14:08 pm

Glenn, see What did you do to your coach today VIII

This is the upgraded filter system from the OEM equipment. There are other options.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #39 – October 09, 2019, 09:17:29 am

I was there when the mechanics pulled the boot off. I will try to get pictures when the turbo gets removed. Of the blades or chipped up and a little bit of foam debris was found in the turbo. The only thing we can ascertain is the foam must have come off of a previous air filter and was stuck someplace until it got sucked in. The filter I have is new as of June and is 100% intact so something was in the pipeline prior to changing this filter. The vanes were not only chipped but the shaft has bent also. The bearing is fully intact very solid spins easy. I have reason to question if the damage did not occur in my previous trip to Houston when water was sucked into the intake and blew out the engine. With cold water hitting a hot Turbo it could cause metal fatigue in the veins the initial breaking of the vein and throwing the turbine out of balance continuing the further damage. That is a speculation on my part but I've worked around enough heavy machinery to see stranger things than this. Waiting for the call back from the shop on pricing and when they can get us back and running.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #40 – October 09, 2019, 09:31:30 am

Foam as in the black gasket on the filter? The filters themselves are paper.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #41 – October 09, 2019, 09:40:02 am

Sorry to hear of all your troubles. How did enough water get " sucked into intake of the motor" that's a lot to water! Sounds to me like poor/improper installation of the air filter.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #42 – October 09, 2019, 09:44:11 am

Quote from: bbeane – October 09, 2019, 09:40:02 am

How did enough water get " sucked into intake of the motor" that's a lot to water!

Bruce,
I believe Roger lost an engine due to rain getting into the intake and there is a mod to prevent this from happening.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #43 – October 09, 2019, 10:01:39 am

It appears to be the same type of phone as on the back of the filter. Presumably the one that I removed. I did not notice any foam pieces missing on it when I threw it away but I did examine the phone as closely as I did the cartridge assembly itself which was fine. That's why I think the phone may have been Lodge some place up in the intake pipe line and then when I drove down Highway 56 which is an exceedingly rough road it broke loose. The water got sucked in driving down Interstate 44 and virtually a flood from the heavens. It was raining 2 to 3 inches per hour very difficult to see and sucked water in. The mod for the rain deflector has not been installed. Again it is speculation on my part that the rain may have caused the damage to the turbo.

Larry

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #44 – October 09, 2019, 10:04:36 am

Larry,

But, that turbo damage would NOT explain the sudden, significant power loss. It either would have occurred when the damage was done or gradually over time, but not suddenly just now.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #45 – October 09, 2019, 10:15:50 am

Don't understand the part about the shaft being bent,if the shaft is bent there is no way the turbo will spin,I would take every part
of your intake system apart and make sure it's clean,are you sure you have the correct filter?

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #46 – October 09, 2019, 10:20:23 am

Quote

that's a lot to water! Sounds to me like poor/improper installation of the air filter.

That was my thinking too until a trip in East Texas last year. We went through a torrential Texas downpour. When I was plugging in at the MOT parking I noted water coming out of my air filter housing. I pulled the end and it just poured out. The filter was completely soaked. I had installed that filter and I installed it correctly. I had bought the HWDMD (Haygarth Water Diversion Modification Device) for a different coach a year or two before but never installed it. I now have it on this coach.
jor

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #47 – October 09, 2019, 10:32:26 am

I was just wondering on the water thing. I'm with BRETT , still doesn't explain why the sudden loss of power. I would still be leaning toward a boost sensor. I also don't know about a bent turbo shaft. Also as others have said something on the pressure side of the turbo. The fact you don't see any boost pressure on the VMSpe tells me the engine processor is not seeing it either. Even damaged if the turbo still spins it would make some boost pressure. Just check closely turbos are pretty durable, and they be pricey.

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #48 – October 09, 2019, 10:47:22 am

Here is the the link to the rain deflector modification if interested.
John M.

Rear Air Deflector

Re: Need suggestions. Broke down

Reply #49 – October 09, 2019, 11:06:18 am

Yup, a bad signal from the boost sensor would be a lot more likely to cause a SUDDEN loss of power than a gradual wearing of the turbo.

Yes, if turbo is worn, yes, it needs to be replaced as well.

Best advice if replacing the turbo doesn't fix it-- have the engine ECU read for codes. MUCH better than guessing with your wallet.

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