Transmission damper failure

Topic: Transmission damper failure (Read 2792 times) previous topic - next topic

Transmission damper failure

October 19, 2019, 02:24:54 pm

Heading to Nag and MOT for a list of repairs and updates, my DW mentioned that the bedroom pocket door was vibrating (this would be a new feature!)
After three and a half days at MOT they were getting to the end of the list, they had done their 40 point inspection to which I said make it 80 or 100 points, if it needs fixing it needs fixing. Yes they found more stuff like pitted plungers on the brake calipers (low mileage is not all it's cracked up to be).
I asked the service manager if I could have (as in pay for) 15 minutes with Keith Risch to do a quick walk around and explain a few things to me.
As we were looking at the primary fuel filter he turns his back and walks off (strange) returning with a 25" angled tip pry bar which he proceeds to insert between the chassis member and the transmission damper ( looks like a flywheel at the rear of the engine) the "flywheel" moves 3/16" with no real pressure and Keith says "hate to tell you, but you got a problem, possibly expensive"
There should be no play, he says to check this regularly especially in the 96/97 thru 2000 coaches.
Asked if I could drive back to Ohio and he said you won't make it!
Called Stewart and Stephenson in Longview who are very familiar with this Foretravel issue, they have worked on a lot of this age group coaches and they said if caught early and with minimal movement when tested possible it may be tightened for $1000 or if it requires a new outpost bearing about $4500.
The repair is less than a day if they have parts in stock. Should be fixed by the end of the week. Surprised I had not heard of this Issue on the forum , found some old posts.
Keith said once it manifests itself it deteriorates quickly.
Picture is the pry bar he used

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #1 – October 19, 2019, 04:46:12 pm

Have seen posts on this issue where transmission replacement was necessary.

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #2 – October 19, 2019, 04:47:21 pm

Quote from: Irish – October 19, 2019, 02:24:54 pm

I asked the service manager if I could have (as in pay fog) 15 minutes with Keith Risch to do a quick walk around and explain a few things to me.

I say that was money well spent.

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #3 – October 19, 2019, 05:07:33 pm

Shared album - mark hubbard - Google Photos

(Do a search "1999 U270 " for my issues)

Make sure your transmission temperature gauge is working. The sender is located as you look thru drivers side hatch, straight ahead. On the elbow coming from transmission. It is a vdo sender. Very easy for tech to break it off. They did to mine.
Your Rv will be on the fancy lifts. Best to be there. Because then you can take pictures of underside of your coach. Check steering for leaks, back of generator, damage to any underbody. I took expensive pictures as I walked 360.
Transmission fluid will be in small jugs. Watch how many you are charged for/used.
Good time to check air system for any issues in the dark places you normally will not see.
Tires, brakes. On and on.
Hotel rates can be gotten for very low cost. I stayed behind Panera resturant with Lowes on other side. Easy drive from Ss.
I went with Allison factory rebuild transmission. 2 yr warranty. Can extend. Also had airbags changed, generator checked, Vr replaced. Any questions. You have my gm in pm.
Mark

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #4 – October 19, 2019, 05:29:06 pm

Mark
Thanks, I will call them on Monday and talk with them. Unfortunately we had to leave the coach in Texas and flew back home to be back at work on Monday.
I always prefer to be there and see what is been done.
Thanks
David

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #5 – October 19, 2019, 05:37:11 pm

I have to agree with you a low mileage coach is not a great thing.

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #6 – October 20, 2019, 01:55:04 pm

Could someone explain the function of the "damper?" Also, answer the following questions...

1. Is it part of the transmission and thus serviced by Allison trained techs or part of the engine?
2. When they fail, what goes wrong? It just looks like a flywheel of some sort.
3. How often do they fail?
4. How does one check the damper for problems?

Thanks in advance,

George

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #7 – October 20, 2019, 02:05:25 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – October 20, 2019, 01:55:04 pm

Could someone explain the function of the "damper?" Also, answer the following questions...

1. Is it part of the transmission and thus serviced by Allison trained techs or part of the engine?
2. When they fail, what goes wrong? It just looks like a flywheel of some sort.
3. How often do they fail?
4. How does one check the damper for problems?

Thanks in advance,

George

reply #10

U295 Driveline vibration issues

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #8 – October 20, 2019, 02:10:08 pm

My recently learnt information is that it is considered part of the transmission and serviced by Allison.
It is there as a balancer to stop vibration
It has been an ongoing fail point in 96/97 thru approx 2000 U series Foretravels according to the repair facility in Longmont Texas.
Once movement is detected there is only a short window before it starts to deteriorate seriously.
Will usually vibrate the rear of the coach unbeknownst to the driver
They say often less than a 1000 miles before it strands you on the side of the rd from when movement is found.
I am sure there are others with more knowledge than me.

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #9 – October 20, 2019, 02:50:39 pm

Checked my damper play,it has play,looks like near 3/16",will try and find a shop around Memphis tomorrow,any ideas for shops
in the Memphis area.

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #10 – October 20, 2019, 02:56:15 pm

My memory says that the 5:13 rear end gears may contribute to this issue as was reported here.

Regearing to 4:68 after the trans fix seems to have helped others here in the past.

I think FOT changed the ratio in later years

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #11 – October 20, 2019, 03:15:16 pm

Does this apply to the U320 models, or is this a U270 & U295 model only issue?

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #12 – October 20, 2019, 03:26:54 pm

Not 100% positive, but believe it is a 3060 issue, not 4060

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #13 – October 20, 2019, 03:54:02 pm

M.O.T. reported a similar issue of vibration about a year ago, they test drove my 1999 U270 and reported a vibration issue, suggesting possible harmonic balancer bad.. They referred me but the Cummings shop which was booked for another 3 days. So they told me to keep the speed down around 55 MPH on the way back to Hot Springs AR. I went to the Cummings Dealer in Little Rock (near my home) and they told me it was a Allison transmission problem. I was referred to a Allison shop same day. They wanted to take the retarder and trans out to check the harmonic balancer. I told them to try to do a temp fix since I had to go on a trip. ( It was about 100 deg also.) The mechanic said he tightened a nut for the harmonic balancer or trans / retarder, also changed the transmission oil. If there was no further vibration on the way home I should consider it fixed. Cheap fix! You may save money if they don't pull the trans! I drove to Albuquerque and back to Arkansas for the balloon fest and all went well.

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #14 – October 20, 2019, 04:38:17 pm

If my memory serves me right (sometimes I don't trust it), it was a 36' issue (read short drive shaft angle). I did install a few of those balancers as a tech on those early gen coach's. I remember a few going to Allison also. Don't remember why. This was in the early 1990's

Our 36' coach has a slight (hardly noticeable) harmonic vibration at 64-70 MPH. I never drive it that fast anyway towing. 62-63 is the sweet spot for mileage. Doesn't bother me. Have driven it 70+ not towing, but never for very long periods.Not enjoyable for me. Mileage gets ugly fast!

I might add, correct ride height is very important on 36' coaches

I would venture to guess, if you drive them ( a 36') in that MPH range, it may cause some of this havoc. Just sayin, just my opinion. Our coach has 119K miles on it, with no play.
Chris

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #15 – October 20, 2019, 05:14:12 pm

Perhaps some one in the NAC area who would like to get theirs checked at MOT can get an inspection by Keith Risch and ask him permission to take a video of it to post on YouTube for the education of all of those who may have coaches affected by this potentially expensive issue. Even better, have him point out where it might help to tighten a fastener if there is play. Probably, most of us can figure it out on our own, but it could be very intimidating for a novice coach owner.
Don

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #16 – October 20, 2019, 06:06:05 pm

As of now my gameplan is to call Longview shop in the morning and see if he can reccomend one of the Allison shops here over the other and go from there.

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #17 – October 20, 2019, 06:07:20 pm

Hey Folk!
When I first posted as I was driving my new to me Rv had this same issue.
1. Vibration in butt as I passed thru and increased speed from 63 - upward.
2. Aubrey and Keith both lay on creepers, with pry bars to show me the dampener movement with them prying between dampener and transmission. There was very visible movement. Also I observed a light leak at front of transmission.
3. Then began my saga of living at Mot and Fot to be able to get service at SS in Longview. (James is SM).
4. Short version. Found bellhousing cracked, replaced transmission with factory rebuild, transmission temperature sensor was broken off, not told. (Thats why I have posted part number VDO 323-050).
"I was told by Mot staff that this was a common issue with late 90 RV".
Drove home to Uvalde finally July 13 after June 7 purchase. Having spent excessive CB. Between Mot, Fot, SS.
See photos on my first post this thread.

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #18 – October 20, 2019, 07:24:26 pm

Ouch Texhub sorry to hear that. Expensive.
I would like a picture of where you would use the pry bar to check for the movement. Anyone have that?
Thanks

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #19 – October 20, 2019, 07:30:05 pm

Place the pry bar between the flywheel/ balancer and chassis member below it

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #20 – October 20, 2019, 07:37:44 pm

Quote from: Irish – October 20, 2019, 07:30:05 pm

Place the pry bar between the flywheel/ balancer and chassis member below it

You can see also if there is wear on either side from it walking around.. I am sure that is how Keith saw it.

Chris

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #21 – October 20, 2019, 08:26:54 pm

Don't have any crossmembers near the back of my trans. I did check end play and up and down playing using a block of wood and pry bar all is good no noticeable play. I would of think with a 1/4 3/16 play the rear seal on the trans would be showing some signs of leakage

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #22 – October 20, 2019, 09:06:55 pm

Quote from: bbeane – October 20, 2019, 08:26:54 pm

Don't have any crossmembers near the back of my trans. I did check end play and up and down playing using a block of wood and pry bar all is good no noticeable play. I would of think with a 1/4 3/16 play the rear seal on the trans would be showing some signs of leakage

I would say "pry bar" between trans case and balancer

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #23 – October 20, 2019, 09:16:52 pm

That would give you end play,I put the pry bar between the bottom of the damper and the 1 inch elbow coming out of the bottom
of the trans,it's about an inch away and without too much pressure got at least 1/8th inch up and down movement.

Re: Transmission damper failure

Reply #24 – October 21, 2019, 11:24:10 am

This might be a completely different issue but the symptoms sound a lot like the well documented P3 Carrier Bearing issue that late 90's FT's had. It was a design issue with a recall that expired a long time ago. Ours had to be fixed more than 10 years ago, outside of the recall period. You might read through some of the threads on that issue. Here's just one of many examples:

Replaced P-3 Carrier and Bearings

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