Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Topic: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade (Read 3898 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #25 – January 11, 2020, 08:11:52 am

Did a check on the O'reilly batteries and they want $455 ea. plus a $22 core charge. A grand for batteries, plus $800 for an inverter charger, plus $200 for a battery monitor, plus cables and hardware is just too rich for our blood.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #26 – January 11, 2020, 08:28:50 am

Quote from: The Soft Boulders – January 11, 2020, 08:11:52 am

Did a check on the O'reilly batteries and they want $455 ea. plus a $22 core charge. A grand for batteries, plus $800 for an inverter charger, plus $200 for a battery monitor, plus cables and hardware is just too rich for our blood.

Interstate 8D batteries have a better specification than O'Reilly's and come in at $310 each including a hefty core charge. I won't get the core charge back because I'm trading in a pair of 4D if I were to trade them in.
My current plan, in this order, is to recover from my cold, wait out the rain, finish the Siata, purchase one 8D and the PD9260. Then I'll run out the 4-D batteries as a pair of house batteries, and install the PD9260 to keep the 8D chassis battery up to snuff. This rig came with a PD9160 and al I had to add was the 9160 Charge Master to achieve 3-stage battery charging.

*I think* that if you replace your Mangatek power converter with a PD9280 you'll solve most of your current battery woes.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #27 – January 11, 2020, 08:32:53 am

Quote from: The Soft Boulders – January 10, 2020, 10:12:14 pm

This is the converter charger in the coach now. The picture will not upload but it is a Magnetek model TU-775-2 and it says 75 amps at 12v DC, 14.5 amps at 120v AC and an average charge rate of 7.5 amps.

Is this the one that boils batteries? As stated above it never shuts off.

Yes, this is a battery boiler.

14.5 VDC is good up to 80% state of charge. From then on 13.6 VDC will allow the battery to absorb what it needs, and after that 13.2 VDC will counter the battery's inherent self discharge.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #28 – January 11, 2020, 08:42:07 am

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – January 11, 2020, 08:28:50 am

Interstate 8D batteries have a better specification than O'Reilly's and come in at $310 each including a hefty core charge.

Is that price for a "flooded" battery or the AGM type? The $455 O'Reilly battery is AGM, and is supposedly same as Deka, made by East Penn.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #29 – January 11, 2020, 08:53:46 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – January 11, 2020, 08:42:07 am

Is that price for a "flooded" battery or the AGM type? The $455 O'Reilly battery is AGM, and is supposedly same as Deka, made by East Penn.

Flooded. We used the PD9260 with 6 DEKA batteries and only needed to water the batteries every 6 months. And that was running the batteries down to 12.0 V (50% SOC) daily in the winter time.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #30 – January 11, 2020, 08:57:51 am

When ordering the Oreilly AGM8D at the store, do not be afraid to ask if they can give you 10% off since two are so expensive. Remember they want to make the sale, as much as you want to buy. Also, you will get the core charge back, whether you have a 4D or 8D to exchange for core. Also it is a big saving having them removing your old 160lb batteries and installing the new at "no charge" for labor.
Labor at other locations can be expensive.

I like Interstate batteries, however, their 8D is a wet cell battery, not AGM, big difference. Interstate makes two qualities of the 8D, the 8D-MHD 132 lbs and the M-8D 123 lbs, both recommended for starting battery, not deep cycle, no ah rating, still one has more lead, the Interstate distributor in Eugene told me. He stocked only the cheaper one, said he always special ordered the more expensive one for rvs, fork lift, floor cleaners, etc. commercial use as most buyers would not pay for the better one. The Oriellys AGM8D, 163 lbs., 250ah. The following is from Oreillys web site.

Group Size (BCI): 8D
Cold Cranking Amps (CCA): 1450 CCA
Reserve Capacity (min): 480 Minute
Amp Hour (Ah): 250 Ah
Marine Cranking Amps (MCA): 1800 MCA
Voltage (V): 12 Volt
Battery Type: AGM
Positive Terminal Location: Right Side
Length (in): 20-3/4 Inch
Width (in): 11 Inch
Height (in): 10 Inch
Terminal Type: Top Post
Weight (Lbs): 163 Lbs.

I started buying agm batteries 15 years ago, have them as start batteries too in my rv and my GX470 "toad". Just do not miss the corrosion, having to check and add water, like the many +'s, see following link.

Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) Battery Information - Battery University

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #31 – January 11, 2020, 09:26:58 am

Quote from: Jack Lewis – January 11, 2020, 08:57:51 am

I like Interstate batteries, however, their 8D is a wet cell battery, not AGM, big difference. As I remember Interstate makes two qualities of the 8D, important to know which one you are buying.

I started buying agm batteries 15 years ago, have them as start batteries too in my rv and my GX470 "toad". Just do not miss the corrosion, having to check and add water.

Shopping for batteries is a pain the the behind. Scott Adams coined the term "Confusopoly" and that pretty much describes the experience. Battery salesmen toss around semi technical terms counting on the ignorance of the consumer to make the sale.

I need to see the 25 amp discharge time and maybe the weight of the battery. Some of the DEKA batteries list a 1 amp discharge time.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #32 – January 11, 2020, 10:04:04 am

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – January 11, 2020, 08:53:46 am

Flooded.

Just something that I feel should be noted when quoting battery prices. There are many variations, and a big range of prices, in batteries. Every owner should use whatever type works best for their needs. Lots of variables - like how hard and how often the inverter will be working, how much dry camping is planned, etc. Coaches that mostly travel "post to post" put very little demand on house batteries. Dry camping for weeks at a time is a different deal.

I replaced our 2 old flooded house batteries with (O'Reilly) AGMs simply because the (clever) design of our coach's battery rack made it almost impossible to add water. (My heartfelt thanks to the chassis designers) So for me, the reduction in hassle alone made the choice a no-brainer. Other owners have other priorities, and "cost" is one of the important ones.

As you say, a flooded battery can provide excellent service at a compelling price, as long as it is properly charged and maintained.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #33 – January 11, 2020, 12:04:43 pm

Both east penn and lifeline battery makers state their batteries they make require a temp controlled charger. Smart and temp controlled. You will damage and wear the batteries much faster without either one. Double? Battery life. Unless your batteries are always at 77 degrees your charging voltage is incorrect

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #34 – January 11, 2020, 12:15:08 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – January 11, 2020, 10:04:04 am

As you say, a flooded battery can provide excellent service at a compelling price, as long as it is properly charged and maintained.

Here is my pair of new to me 4D batteries I used to replace the single group 24. Coming soon to this battery bay will be an additional 8D. Drill new holes for 6 sheet metal screws. Sort out the lights and the Siata will be on the road. Next time I water the motorcycle batteries I'll take a picture for you.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #35 – January 11, 2020, 12:17:18 pm

Absolutely, battery temperature is a determinant in charge algorithm.

BUT, many inverter/chargers allow you to program in temperature which then has to be changed as your ambient temperatures change. Don't see that as a big deal. Not quite as good as the optional temperature probe, but light years better than "stupid" converters.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #36 – January 11, 2020, 01:13:15 pm

Old toolmaker make sure you add venting to the compartment. Your coach came with sealed batteries. Not flooded cells to my knowledge

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #37 – January 11, 2020, 02:06:21 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – January 11, 2020, 01:13:15 pm

Old toolmaker make sure you add venting to the compartment. Your coach came with sealed batteries. Not flooded cells to my knowledge

Quite likely there are already vents-- at least the 1993 U240 had vents from the factory.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #38 – January 11, 2020, 03:47:22 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – January 11, 2020, 01:13:15 pm

Old toolmaker make sure you add venting to the compartment. Your coach came with sealed batteries. Not flooded cells to my knowledge

Thanks for the advice but BTDT. I have a vent through the floor and one towards the rear tire. Plus with a modern regulated voltage power supply there really isn't much out gassing. When living as I am right now with an infinite power supply, the PD bumps the voltage up to 14.4 every 27 (?) hours for 15 minutes to stir the electrolyte.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #39 – January 11, 2020, 08:44:06 pm

Found this on CL

Magnum Energy 2000W inverter/charger/xfer switch MS2012 - electronics - by...

I emailed to see if it was still available and this was the response:

Hi Tyler,

I'm Joseph. The inverter is still available. If you want to test it, I'll be in the Treasure Island area next Saturday; you'll need to bring your own battery(ies). You can stop by to pick it up as-is at any point though and someone will be there to help you. As-is: $500, Test with me: $700. My #

Not sure what to think but it could be a good deal.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #40 – January 11, 2020, 08:57:10 pm

Tyler, that's a good quality inverter/charger...I have the MS2812 in my coach. The price seems reasonable too. You'll want to buy the ME-BMK as well, so that you can monitor the battery usage and condition. Woody.

Quote from: The Soft Boulders – January 11, 2020, 08:44:06 pm

Found this on CL

Magnum Energy 2000W inverter/charger/xfer switch MS2012 - electronics - by...

I emailed to see if it was still available and this was the response:

Hi Tyler,

I'm Joseph. The inverter is still available. If you want to test it, I'll be in the Treasure Island area next Saturday; you'll need to bring your own battery(ies). You can stop by to pick it up as-is at any point though and someone will be there to help you. As-is: $500, Test with me: $700. My #

Not sure what to think but it could be a good deal.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #41 – January 11, 2020, 09:18:15 pm

Quote from: The Soft Boulders – January 11, 2020, 08:44:06 pm

Found this on CL

Magnum Energy 2000W inverter/charger/xfer switch MS2012 - electronics - by...

I emailed to see if it was still available and this was the response:

Hi Tyler,

I'm Joseph. The inverter is still available. If you want to test it, I'll be in the Treasure Island area next Saturday; you'll need to bring your own battery(ies). You can stop by to pick it up as-is at any point though and someone will be there to help you. As-is: $500, Test with me: $700. My #

Not sure what to think but it could be a good deal.

Why the $200 charge to allow you to power it up?

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #42 – January 11, 2020, 09:33:09 pm

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – January 11, 2020, 09:18:15 pm

Why the $200 charge to allow you to power it up?

I don't know but it makes me wonder a little. I have a bad habit of believing people are honest and trustworthy. It's bit me in the butt more than once haha.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #43 – January 11, 2020, 09:41:44 pm

What wire size do you have from the battery to the charger, you will need 4.0 cable for that charger or the one I emailed you about.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #44 – January 11, 2020, 09:57:17 pm

Quote from: John44 – January 11, 2020, 09:41:44 pm

What wire size do you have from the battery to the charger, you will need 4.0 cable for that charger or the one I emailed you about.

I don't know for sure what gauge the wire is from our current charger to the batteries is but i don't think it's 4 gauge. The charger we have now is in the bay one over from the batteries and the inverter is under the stairs. If we ended doing anything I've got to figure out where to place the new unit and how to run the cables.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #45 – January 11, 2020, 10:09:01 pm

H & T
I would shine that deal on and get a new charger/inverter (for a bit more dough) with a warranty. It's an important piece of equipment and needs to be working properly. Plus they can be a fire hazard even when new.

And did I forget to say..........GO TITANS!!

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #46 – January 12, 2020, 08:40:33 am

Quote from: The Soft Boulders – January 11, 2020, 09:57:17 pm

I don't know for sure what gauge the wire is from our current charger to the batteries is but i don't think it's 4 gauge. The charger we have now is in the bay one over from the batteries and the inverter is under the stairs. If we ended doing anything I've got to figure out where to place the new unit and how to run the cables.

In brief, wire gauge size keeps getting larger until you get to "0" then continues 00, 000, 0000, for 4-0 is read as four zero.

FWIW, welding cable is made with fine strands of wire and is flexible and costs more. So there is a choice depending on your pain tolerance.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #47 – January 12, 2020, 09:15:42 am

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – January 12, 2020, 08:40:33 am

In brief, wire gauge size keeps getting larger until you get to "0" then continues 00, 000, 0000, for 4-0 is read as four zero.

FWIW, welding cable is made with fine strands of wire and is flexible and costs more. So there is a choice depending on your pain tolerance.

That makes more sense, ha, I guess I've always seen it written as 4/0 so it didn't click. Brain fart on my part

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #48 – January 12, 2020, 10:03:14 am

More good information and advise in the install part one and install part two videos.
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/overview.aspx

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #49 – January 12, 2020, 11:19:30 am

Quote from: The Soft Boulders – January 12, 2020, 09:15:42 am

That makes more sense, ha, I guess I've always seen it written as 4/0 so it didn't click. Brain fart on my part

Not so much a brain fart, but specialized arcane knowledge.

Regarding you batteries it's my not so humble opinion, that you need to purchase and install a PD92XX at least 60 ampere capacity maybe 80A. That will help your batteries live their best lives. It will be pretty much a drop in replacement for the power converter you are now using.
The antique Taylor 1500W inverter you can keep using, although for serious computer use while dry camping I'd purchase a 12V power supply for your laptop. But if all you're doing is turning on the inverter for computer use it's probably a wash. Our previous RV had cigarette lighters everywhere so it was no problem to plug the 12V power supply in wherever we were sitting. The Foretravel, not so easy.

Considering the cost of a smart battery charger, versus the cost of a voltage sensing relay we're adding a second PD9260 along with the new Interstate 8D, we already have 8 years of experience with a PD 9260 and two different generators and see no need to experiment. But the chassis battery does run down from parasitic loads.

If you do decide to install a new Xantrex combination inverter charger, you can drop it in where your power converter is right now and take advantage of the 4/0 battery cables, it being easier to run the 120V wires than 4/0 cable.

Me? As soon as it stops raining, I will measure and drill 6 new sheet metal screw holes for an engine pan on the Siata then trouble shoot the lights and I'm good to go. Or rather the car will be. I'm walking on the treadmill on the 15th to get an idea about the patency of my coronary arteries. I've been to 100% occlusion once (Briefly), 80 and 90% once and I'm trying to stay on top.

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