Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Topic: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading (Read 10493 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Towing rig from front

Reply #50 – April 11, 2021, 10:49:36 pm

Quote from: craneman – April 11, 2021, 06:56:36 pm

Scott, looks good for not twisting but any high centering problem there?

Three inches clearance at top on coach right center side. Biggest issue was approach angle at bottom both for front and rear of coach. No pitch issues at bottom just a lot of angle change. Had to have coach in raise position to clear front and rear. I would not recommend nor will I repeat, however we have a similar driveway in North Carolina at our daughters house and now don't think it will be doable for me since this weeks events have spooked me. Just as steep into a off camber busy two lane rural road in a turn. No way to drive straight up, have to enter diagonally. Ain't worth it.
Scott

Re: Towing rig from front

Reply #51 – April 11, 2021, 11:44:04 pm

Quote from: dsd – April 11, 2021, 06:24:06 pm

Drive ways are truly dangerous. After all this I'm scared
Scott

Where do you hide your headlights?

Re: Towing rig from front

Reply #52 – April 12, 2021, 12:11:07 am

Quote from: TGordon – April 11, 2021, 11:44:04 pm

Where do you hide your headlights?

They are right there in front you behind two polystyrene styrofoam blocks to protect them from UV rays. IE coach shades
Scott

Re: Towing rig from front

Reply #53 – April 12, 2021, 12:22:09 am

I wondered if any else saw the lack of head lamps, lol. He has allot of work in those lamps and wants to keep them nice! They work great. Jim.

Re: Towing rig from front

Reply #54 – April 12, 2021, 12:36:01 am

I notice that it looked like it didn't have head lights also.

Re: Towing rig from front

Reply #55 – April 12, 2021, 10:40:13 am

In reading the post level/height malfunction Chuck brought up the topic of following the Emergency Leveling Valve Override Procedure. Could this option help us avoid Elliott's misfortune? Jim.

Re: Towing rig from front

Reply #56 – April 12, 2021, 10:56:45 am

Another member sent me a PM wondering if a front bulkhead issue might be at the cause of the suspension movement. Would not take much to cause the tires to hit the bags. Might be hard to see for those not used to looking at the bulkhead where it bolts on.

Pierce

Re: Towing rig from front

Reply #57 – April 12, 2021, 10:58:04 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – April 12, 2021, 10:56:45 am

Another member sent me a PM wondering if a front bulkhead issue might be at the cause of the suspension movement. Would not take much to cause the tires to hit the bags. Might be hard to see for those not used to looking at the bulkhead where it bolts on.

Pierce

Good thing to check and EASY.

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #58 – April 12, 2021, 11:00:20 am

I just changed the title to better reflect the contents:

Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Re: Towing rig from front

Reply #59 – April 12, 2021, 11:39:47 am

Quote from: fourdayoff – April 12, 2021, 10:40:13 am

In reading the post level/height malfunction Chuck brought up the topic of following the Emergency Leveling Valve Override Procedure. Could this option help us avoid Elliott's misfortune?

The procedure I linked is used when you have a failed height control valve or a failed travel solenoid. Pulling the fuse kills the travel circuit in the HWH brain box and prevents automatic adjustment of the ride height. What you have left is essentially a coach with "dumb" air bag suspension. The volume of air in the bags remains constant - there is no adjustment made for changing road conditions or coach weight/attitude (unless you do it manually). This is sometimes called a "Locked-In" suspension system. See link below for a discussion of air springs:

http://lhtech.com/pdf/automation/pneumatic/Goodyear-Air-Spring-Data.pdf

SO, is Locked-In (dumb) air suspension preferable to Active-Air (auto adjusting) air suspension for off-road travel in a motorhome? I don't know. Those with off-road experience will chime in, I'm sure.

I'm still not clear on what exactly happened to Elliott's leveling system that caused the front air bags to deflate. He did not mention if there was any damage to the linkage on the front height control valve. He said the front air bags lost pressure and the HWH control panel went dead. Then a while later it came back to life and worked again. So that is a big mystery to me.

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #60 – April 12, 2021, 11:59:35 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – April 12, 2021, 11:39:47 am

the HWH control panel went dead. Then a while later it came back to life and worked again. So that is a big mystery to me.

I was hoping one of you would be able to shed some light on that. I swear the coach wouldn't start up again either. Adrenaline was pumping at that point and it's hard not to second guess myself looking back on the moment.

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #61 – April 12, 2021, 12:45:58 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – April 12, 2021, 11:39:47 am

SO, is Locked-In (dumb) air suspension preferable to Active-Air (auto adjusting) air suspension for off-road travel in a motorhome? I don't know. Those with off-road experience will chime in, I'm sure.

For me it will be. Having the height adjustments made once out of level will overload chassis chasing the unwanted. I will lock system on flat pavement prior to going off road any more. This will allow preknown values to stay the same and not overload chassis. I will also be adding limit warning horn /light switches to both front axle stops to indicate limits exceeded for me. Also also allows rear axle to absorb some of the irregularities rather than fight them
Scott

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #62 – April 12, 2021, 12:56:55 pm

Need to give this some focused thought. Some combination of the one ride height value full high, one full low, and the differential pressure switch? Potentially some untimely glitch of the HWH controller as well. Just looking at the pictures of the road it does not look like anything we haven't driven through but its difficult to judge distances from the picture. Approach angles, exit angles, speed all make for a lot of variables.

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #63 – April 12, 2021, 01:03:03 pm

Quote from: Elliott – April 12, 2021, 11:59:35 am

I was hoping one of you would be able to shed some light on that. I swear the coach wouldn't start up again either.

Hard for us to diagnose the failure mode after the fact and from long distance. Some thoughts come to mind.

A temporary 12 volt power failure would cause the HWH panel to go dead, and would prevent restart of your engine. The ignition solenoid would be a likely place for that to occur... Say, for instance, the wire from the ignition switch to the activation terminal on the ignition solenoid makes intermittent contact at one of the crimp connectors.

But a dead HWH panel would not explain the loss of air in the front bags.

If the front suspension was severely flexed it might cause the front height control valve linkage to pull free from its connection point on the suspension. If the height control valve arm was in the "exhaust air" position at that time, it would dump all the air out of the front air bags. This failure should be obvious if the front height control valve is inspected and the linkage is hanging free.

Other members can probably think of other equally plausible scenarios.

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #64 – April 12, 2021, 01:06:57 pm

As soon as the front axle reaches its limit and the opposing rear ride height valve sees being low that same side front tire will be lifted off the ground because the ride height valve has a job to do and will
Scott

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #65 – April 12, 2021, 02:43:56 pm

Quote from: Elliott – April 12, 2021, 11:59:35 am

I was hoping one of you would be able to shed some light on that. I swear the coach wouldn't start up again either. Adrenaline was pumping at that point and it's hard not to second guess myself looking back on the moment.

By not starting, do you mean it turned over OK but would not start or nothing happened when you turned the key? If nothing happened, first thing to do is to check battery terminals by pulling them off and cleaning. Good to have a digital meter at the instrument panel lighter plug to check for voltage when you turn the key to start, etc.

Pierce

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #66 – April 12, 2021, 03:54:56 pm

Elliot,
Sorry to hear everything you are going through.
Could there have been something "not right" when you bought the coach that you were/are unaware of compounding the situation?

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #67 – April 12, 2021, 03:57:00 pm

Active air has a stop button on the dash display. When button is pushed HWH ps dead. Do not have to pull any fuses.

I believe Coach only has one ride height sensor for the front and is in the middle.

How many Fortravels have gone up a steep entrance at an angle with no problems.

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #68 – April 12, 2021, 04:03:06 pm

Elliot,

Quick question - I noticed you have a 2001. Is it one of the handful that has IFS instead of a solid front axle that year?

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #69 – April 12, 2021, 04:10:41 pm

Quote from: Michelle – April 12, 2021, 04:03:06 pm

Quick question - I noticed you have a 2001. Is it one of the handful that has IFS instead of a solid front axle that year?

No, it's a solid front axle

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #70 – April 12, 2021, 04:18:15 pm

Quote from: Lt403 – April 12, 2021, 03:54:56 pm

Could there have been something "not right" when you bought the coach that you were/are unaware of compounding the situation?

It's certainly possible but nothing showed up in the PPI. I do wonder how many folks are driving around with slightly bent stuff and don't realize it.

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #71 – April 12, 2021, 04:39:59 pm

Quote from: turbojack – April 12, 2021, 03:57:00 pm

Active air has a stop button on the dash display. When button is pushed HWH ps dead. Do not have to pull any fuses.

I believe Coach only has once ride height sensor for the front and is in the middle.

How many Fortravels have gone up a steep entrance at an angle with no problems.

Yes there is a off button on control panel but if the parking brake is released it automatically goes back to travel.
If the level button is pushed one to enter manual that would work except once parking brake is released goes back to travel
Scott

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #72 – April 12, 2021, 05:34:47 pm

Quote from: Elliott – April 12, 2021, 04:10:41 pm

No, it's a solid front axle

Elliott,

Here is something to think about.
If you have a solid front axle then you don't have "A" frames that you mentioned as being bent in reply 15. If that info came from the tow truck driver it is understandable. If that info came from the repair shop refer to the first sentence above.

Mike

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #73 – April 12, 2021, 05:59:53 pm

Elliot, sorry to hear of your troubles, and happy to hear your wife was victorious over the cancer.
Congratulations on the good sale of the 5th wheel too, great deal.

The S bend does not look severe from your photos, I'm sure I would most likely have gone for it too.
Although the hump in the middle may have given me some caution.
Curiosity question, how big were the other class A rigs that made it in there?
Also wondering if the earlier part of the road in could have shaken something loose causing the power loss?

Re: Coach/suspension Damage From Torquing While Off-Roading

Reply #74 – April 12, 2021, 06:04:19 pm

Quote from: Kiwitex – April 12, 2021, 05:59:53 pm

Curiosity question, how big were the other class A rigs that made it in there?

One 40' country coach DP, one 38' Holiday Rambler (gas), one 38' Thor something or another (gas), and one Tiffin DP that was 36' or 38'.

Plus a big class C on a ford chassis and other much smaller rigs (casita, truck camper, 5th wheel, etc..). We have a very hodge podge group of friends

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