Living room slide bladder DIY

Topic: Living room slide bladder DIY (Read 7351 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #50 – February 04, 2022, 11:02:31 pm

Wow! Scott and I were able to get his slide out of the coach. Allot of inspection and contemplating but it's just nuts and bolts, lots of them. Not for the faint of heart but as you know by now Scott is a trooper, he will tackle anything. It's a privilege to help and learn from him. Now a couple of days to strip out the old bladder and install the new. Then the fun starts again reinstalling the slide.

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #51 – February 05, 2022, 08:09:51 am

Question about the last photo in reply #40. The limit switch status indicator panel. is this component installed in the coach and if so where is it located?

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #52 – February 05, 2022, 10:05:44 am

Quote from: Geodmann – February 05, 2022, 08:09:51 am

Question about the last photo in reply #40. The limit switch status indicator panel. is this component installed in the coach and if so where is it located?

About two feet forward of the HWH computer coach left, storage compartment on the ceiling. With slide extended all of the opposing leds illuminated in yellow. Still need to figure out why the 3amp fuse does not illuminate and we're this fuse is located. The diagram inside the computer with all the fuses doesn't describe a 3 amp fuse. The fuses and circuits are active during operation of the unlock, extent, retract lock operation.
When the control panel upstairs gets the yellow vacuum ready light and you operate the extend or retract the red light comes on to indicate that the pump is running but is is not. I'm hoping the two are a common issue

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #53 – February 05, 2022, 10:25:46 am

Might I suggest a set of really good ear plugs for the DW in the event that some strong "shop talk language" occurs?

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #54 – February 05, 2022, 10:58:29 am

Quote from: nitehawk – February 05, 2022, 10:25:46 am

Might I suggest a set of really good ear plugs for the DW in the event that some strong "shop talk language" occurs?

Just a puzzle. So it looks like there is a control circuit for the pump with fuse and control relay. Just need to figure out were in the box it is. My unit is the 680 and really good prints are hard to find. Crawling in and out of the storage compartment has taken its toll on me. Woke up in the middle of the night with a leg cramp and neck is a real pain. Don't ever get old it will kill you. Primer doesn't show up till Sunday afternoon so I'll have all week to work on it. My coach has that truss closing up the upper half of the access door just to add to the fun.

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #55 – February 05, 2022, 11:13:55 am

Quote from: nitehawk – February 05, 2022, 10:25:46 am

Might I suggest a set of really good ear plugs for the DW in the event that some strong "shop talk language" occurs?

Actually may be needed when putting it back in come to think about it

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #56 – February 05, 2022, 12:18:26 pm

Scott, if you don't already have it, here's the 680 manual with schematics that I found online: http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml21001.pdf

Searching the PDF for "3A" for that fuse, it shows up in the drawing of the limit switch indicator box but no where else? Did you unstack the HWH boxes to see if there is one hidden behind another?

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #57 – February 05, 2022, 01:03:59 pm

Quote from: WS6_Keith – February 05, 2022, 12:18:26 pm

Scott, if you don't already have it, here's the 680 manual with schematics that I found online: http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml21001.pdf

Searching the PDF for "3A" for that fuse, it shows up in the drawing of the limit switch indicator box but no where else? Did you unstack the HWH boxes to see if there is one hidden behind another?

There is only one fuse 7.5 amp ride height. So removed lock strips and bladder. Although it looked in pretty good shape it was very much at the end of its life and you could tear it easily by hand. The adhesive on the other hand is quite robust. This is underneath the bladder to cause the bladder to go flat when it deflate with vacuum. It's 42° And adhesive is too soft to pull at that temperature and just tears so I tried heating it with a heat gun and they just made things worse. Oddly putting a soldering iron on the rail and then following the roll of adhesive with freeze Spray keeps the tape from tearing and you can work it off much easier. No fun

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #58 – February 05, 2022, 02:02:19 pm

So the preheat then freeze spray the adhesive is working pretty good. Bottom edge done was up to a foot a minute. Did lower aft 8 feet with no tears or stops. Starting on verticals. Will require a bit more thought

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #59 – February 05, 2022, 03:47:28 pm

So just finished removing the adhesive. The heat and freezing the removed tape keeps it from tearing off. I was really dreading this part of the job and it's done. I thought the top would be difficult but the big iron I was using only fell and hit me once. Heat rises so it was going right were I needed it to. Back to cleaning and figuring out wiring 👍👍

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #60 – February 05, 2022, 09:26:36 pm

So found fuse for pump control open. Replaced and now pump runs on command. Extends normally and pump shuts off. Retract functions but does not go into next phase. Power wire into the position indication box has power but fuse 3 amp led still not illuminated? This box provides the ground to transition to the lock deploy stage. So I'll have to figure out why it's not on. Could also be a bad pressure switch, part of the logic, but it does shut down on extend. I keep re reading the manual and continue to make progress. The initial time we opened it it did retract the locks. Really need to extend locks to clean all the junk out of them. Getting closer.
Scott

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #61 – February 05, 2022, 09:33:24 pm

Quote from: dsd – February 04, 2022, 05:05:40 pm

Placing the slide control key to on the vacuum retracts bladder and after about 40 seconds the yellow light illuminates. Press extend button and nothing happens. Indicating about 9 inches of vacuum on old bladder. Pump never runs and locks still show engaged.

Check and see if solonide that operates the hydrolic pump is good. Had same problem and was solonide. FOT told me when 1 goes bad the other is not far behind.. I replaced both.

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #62 – February 05, 2022, 10:17:53 pm

Quote from: turbojack – February 05, 2022, 09:33:24 pm

Check and see if solonide that operates the hydrolic pump is good. Had same problem and was solonide. FOT told me when 1 goes bad the other is not far behind.. I replaced both.

The solenoid function normally now and so does the pump. Its the sequence during retract with extending stops. I'm pretty sure my problem is in the limit switch indication box. It supplies the ground to the control box in addition to the pressure switch providing a ground. I think the pressure switch is functioning normally because the pump auto shuts off during extend, just holds on retract after slide come in but doesn't progress. Need to figure out that darn 3 amp fuse LED on box not illuminating. The power wire going into the box has power on Pin 12. 12 volts dc.who knows what will come up after that. Ive never operated the slide normally once since we purchased the coach. Sure is bigger with slide opened or removed

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #63 – February 06, 2022, 02:34:39 pm

And as I've said for years, if your going to be dumb you got to be tough. Today as my saga continues I was was thinking about all the information in the manual on the sequence at the slide Works. I was cleaning the top of the slide off still had Arkansas mud on it and I looked over at the upper locks and and looking at them at eye level realized hey I should probably push those slide stowed indicators in when I reinstall the slide so they don't get broken. The light came on. I put Ferris plates on top of them and tried to operate the slide no help added magnets to the ferrous plates and was able to complete retract and locks stowed cycle. This whole time the coach was thinking that the slide was not retracted ( laying on the ground)and locks cannot be extended so as to prevent damage to slide. Everything was working as it should . Back to cleaning. Good fun
Scott

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #64 – February 06, 2022, 02:47:36 pm

Scott,

Looks like you had good supervision!

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #65 – February 06, 2022, 03:02:44 pm

Sage was bored to death but was looking at the rear actuator. The nylon pads control horizontal position in opening and the steel plated goes between actuator end block shown in picture and attach to the slide box controlling vertical More plates drops height and less raises. Front was perfect but back had dropped .050. Will make a replacement plate to raise position Easy to access once installed. Four 1/4 bolts drives entire slide in and out and holds in position in tension At least they are grade 8 bolts. Will clean and dry lube everything. Also the steel plates the bocks slide on are in need of cleaning and will get dry line also. This can also be done with slide installed extended from underneath
Scott

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #66 – February 06, 2022, 07:26:11 pm

So the top opening of the slide has three stop blocks that engage to keep the top of the slide from going out to far. They also function utilizing 45 degree stops to help hold the center of the slide from flexing during bladder inflation. My center hook was not engaging. It has a shim plate under it and moves it out about 3/16 of a inch. In doing so it never contacts and does its job. I definitely feel that there should be some sort of positive control to keep the bladder in alignment with the slide in the open position. Thinking a ramp and a ball bearing having the final parked position off the ram and on a flat. Just thinking out loud?
Scott

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #67 – February 06, 2022, 09:44:49 pm

One thing I always wondered about the slides was if the guiding slide rail and the "saddle" block were of sufficient proportion to promote guidance without binding.
Any time I had to design a slide unit for a machine the rule was (I believe) two times the distance over the slide rails for the saddle length.

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #68 – February 06, 2022, 11:14:31 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – February 06, 2022, 09:44:49 pm

One thing I always wondered about the slides was if the guiding slide rail and the "saddle" block were of sufficient proportion to promote guidance without binding.
Any time I had to design a slide unit for a machine the rule was (I believe) two times the distance over the slide rails for the saddle length.

So I think the actuators are always matched in the same position during travel. The one roller on each actuator is on the inside on both towards each other. The front roller spun freely and the rear was very stiff and sliding i think. These are used to assist in keeping slide vertical during movement keeping slide from tipping out at top. All the force generated is along the lower portion of the slide. I really want to add a additional guide pin on the top center, but it can have very little effort available too align during extension, but is needed to prevent the top bowing during bladder inflation. There is a 1/4"x 2" strap placed on the end of the top and is pretensioned to assist in supporting the center of the inside of the slide. Mine has a pretensioned bow in it about a half inch to assist in lifting the center up. Not very effective IMO. With the slide cover trim inside extending about four inches would allow quite a bid of room to accommodate a alignment ramp and roller. Will figure out something to accommodate

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #69 – February 06, 2022, 11:49:04 pm

If the top bows down too much, the inflated bladder will not seal the slide unit and rain will enter at that point

Happened on my coach - Dewes at MOT spend a lot of time getting the slide room ceiling no to sag so much so the bladder would seal out any rain

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #70 – February 07, 2022, 12:01:19 am

This is where a crowned top is desirable.
Explanation: We used to, in the design of paper machinery rolls, design the suction couch roll diameter larger in the middle because with the distance between end bearing supports becoming greater, the center of the roll would sag down because of all the weight.
Thus, a "crowned roll".
I would suspect that a bit of "crowning", or raised center might be desirable on a really large slide and slowly tapering down both ways from center.

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #71 – February 07, 2022, 10:07:43 am

Quote from: nitehawk – February 07, 2022, 12:01:19 am

This is where a crowned top is desirable.
I would suspect that a bit of "crowning", or raised center might be desirable on a really large slide and slowly tapering down both ways from center.

Yes. So with that said I was already going to adjust it up so as its not sagging. Initially i thought it was more than it really is do too the 1/4 x 2' strap had so much sag in it but the structure it attaches to had about 3/16 or less. Strap had 1/2" bow installed in it so it visually looks worse than it is. This was done to pretension and help address the sag I think. Crown would flow water away from seal and sag would funnel it to the seal. The top of the coach opening is perfectly flat, so no positive crown if you want it to fit in the coach.
Scott

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #72 – February 09, 2022, 08:50:40 pm

So massaged sag out of slide and ended up with 1/8 crown. So fork lift was trapped behind coach and i wanted to move some heavy metal so fired up back hoe and hooked up forks to bucket. Was spreading forks and smashed/ torn my left thumb nail. Entire nail and nail bed torn loose. Not the start for a good day. Crap. Covered up with super glue gel to stop bleeding and wrapped with tape. Darn thing leaked all day long till I put last dressing at the end of the day. So with Jim and long friend Jessy was able to get adhesive and bladder with both lock keys installed. Inflated to 5psi to set back of seal to adhesive. Looks great. Hate trying to do anything one handed. Have some other repairs and cleaning so will probably wait a couple days before slide goes in.

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #73 – February 09, 2022, 09:21:19 pm

Can't hit the like button when your hurt. Still following your journey on slide replacement though.

Re: Living room slide bladder DIY

Reply #74 – February 09, 2022, 09:58:21 pm

Quote from: craneman – February 09, 2022, 09:21:19 pm

Can't hit the like button when your hurt. Still following your journey on slide replacement though.

Hopefully wont loose nail permanently , just got to be tough. Super glue is your friend. new seal has a shark fin a 1/4 inch tall. Should work much better especially when deflated. Was real interesting putting it in. Will post the guide they sent tomorrow. The corners were kinked initially and i was concerned. You have to stretch the bladder about five inches so getting it centered in the air hose is important we stretched the top and bottom about two inches and the rest in the sides. Corners pulled the kinks right out once tensioned. The lock key is pushed into the key way slot that the ears on the bladder goes in. Let set nicely with a dead blow plastic hammer. Inflated bladder to 5 psi to set adhesive on the back of the bladder. Adhesive is there to retract shark fin flat against the aluminum extrusion. They recommend checking pressure to 12psi and vacuum to 20 inches on control unit. Will be checking in more detail tomorrow. The lock key is thicker than the old and I doubt it could ever come loose. Will be applying a bead of gray 157 RTV between lock key and coach fiberglass to prevent moisture from collecting. Will never even see it. All in all it was a very rewarding day other than my thumb.
Scott

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