Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Topic: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway (Read 3290 times) previous topic - next topic

Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

October 15, 2021, 10:55:09 pm

Drivers side tag axle seal leaking. Info below.

March 28, 2018 Cummins in Coburg discovered the driver side tag axle seal was leaking gear oil, odometer 101,100. Replaced tag inner seal, races, bearings

12/5/2019 Nac MH Service discovered same driver tag inner seal leaking gear oil, inner seal replaced, OD 112,500 (11,400 miles after Cummins replaced seal).

10/12/2021, Before this trip, I checked all (front and tag) hub oil levels, OD 117,500. Drivers tag hub oil level exactly at the add mark. (5,000 miles since inner seal replaced the second time). No oil in hub cap.

I had never topped up a hub, and did not realize how little oil it takes. I overfilled it, and left it overfilled (maybe 1/4 - 1/2" over full line).
Would that cause even more excessive oil from inner seal leaking?

10/15/21 (today). After coming off Siskiyou mountain pass from OR into CA on I-5, just past the agriculture check station, I stopped for a walk around. I smelled a smell similar to hot brakes, but am experienced in long downgrades and am easy on brakes/retarder and use gears selection.

The tag wheel was smoking. At first I suspected a stuck brake pad, but crawling under saw gear oil slung onto nearby components.
Theory: gear oil was on the tag brake rotor/pads, and the long downgrade heated them up enough to "smoke" the gear oil. Took a long time for the smoke to end.

Pulled the hubcap, tag hub was at the add mark. Topped it up to the add mark again.

I left the hub cap off to monitor the level. 150 miles later in a campground, hub oil level still right at full mark.

We are now in Corning CA, headed to Nacogdoches via NV then across I 40. Multiple stops along the way, Nac around 2nd to 3rd week Nov. Donnor pass on I-80 tomorrow.

I'll be checking the hub oil level every stop, and after all long downgrades.

Concerns? Safe to continue as long as I keep oil in the hub, even if it slings some out?

Valvoline synthetic gear oil. I have some concern about flash point if oil is on the brake, and brake gets hot on long downgrades.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #1 – October 15, 2021, 11:13:48 pm

A couple of possibilities strike me, the seal was in slightly out of straight so it acts like a pump or was knicked when the assembly was re installed.
Where the seal rides could be the problem.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #2 – October 16, 2021, 09:37:31 am

Round 1. Bearings, races and oil seals.

Round 2. OIl seals.

I have watched people destroy ball bearings by incorrect procedure. "I" would either replace or cause to be replaced the bearings, races and seals one more time paying special attention to the area where the seal rides on the axle. IF and that's a big IF, the area where the lip of the seal rides on the axle is worn, there is a commercially available thin walled sleeve that can be used to effect a leak proof repair with a little lathe turning and loctite.

While continuing to travel, swap out the synthetic oil for old style gear oil with the hope that will bring oil consumption under control. And of course, the largest fire extinguisher you can handle.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #3 – October 16, 2021, 09:54:00 am

Old Toolman beat me to my post so some of what I said is duplicate.

For this to be replaced so many time and still leaking there must be something wrong with what the seal is riding against. I do not know about this axle but on boat trailers a lot of them have a replaceable race that the seal can run against when when the seal starts leaking.

I would still not rule out that you do not also have a dragging brake. Get a IR heat gun and compare that wheel to the other ones. At least you then could rule that out.

I do not see a problem continuing with it leaking except for the mess it will make. The bearing only care if they have oil and not below the add line.

If oil is on the rotor and brake pad that brake is not working as it should in stopping. I would try to not use the brakes on downhills to try and keep as much heat off of that brake so the oil will not start on fire. The oil has a flash point of around 440-500 degrees. They say with normal braking the rotors will not get much above 400 degrees but can get as high as 1000 degrees with very heavy braking

Not to scare you but I would make sure I have a good fire extinguisher near by just in case.,

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #4 – October 16, 2021, 10:21:50 am

Not sure of the set up on a tag axle but if it's like a semi trailer then a "speedy sleeve" is called for. They're a bit of a pain to install if you don't have the install tool or if you've never done it. Basically it slides over the existing shaft and creates a new smooth surface for the seal to contact. When installed properly there's no machining or silicone needed, it can be installed using the old heat it up in the oven method to expand then slide on the shaft.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #5 – October 16, 2021, 10:29:15 am

They also make new type seals that don't seal on the axle but seal internally. Check with the numbers of your original seal and see if that is an option.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #6 – October 16, 2021, 10:59:58 am

Your 2003 should have a uni seal. That is a seal that turns within it's self. Proper installation requires a driver to install it in the hub, then the seal is pulled on to the axle end by torquing the axle nut, then adjusting the Bering per specs. I suspect a damaged hub ( a scratch in the bore) or improper installation, you can't beat on these seals to install them. If up don't use the proper driver they will leak every time.installed properly they will last a long time.

To get you to Nac try removing as much oil as possible and put some Lucas stop leak in it. It can b had at Wally mart or about any parts store. It's thicker may help with the leak

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #7 – October 16, 2021, 11:30:18 am

Who would be best in Nac for a final and best fix on this tag axle seal, bearing, race etc?

Depending on how travel goes the next day or two I may seek out repair between Reno NV and Nac.

Anyone trustworthy along the way would be OK as well.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #8 – October 16, 2021, 12:11:48 pm

Some of these seal designs an be difficult to get aligned correctly and will leak. I did work for one operator that had a 44 passenger bus and had chronic front hub oil leaks. Owner hated seeing it. They ended up resolving by greasing hub bearings. Personally I prefer the oil bath, but also don't want fires from leakage, may be a short term possibility. Synthetic oil leaks more than dyno also. Curious if those hubs require the 140 weight oil like my front hubs on my 2001 320?
Scott

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #9 – October 16, 2021, 04:40:52 pm

Dan almost any heavy truck/trailer repair shop should be able to handle that job. Common job. You
May want to stay away from run of the mill RV repair places

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #10 – October 16, 2021, 06:32:08 pm

As Scott said your can grease the bearings. Years ago I had a Class C motorhome
and it was supposed to get oil from the differential and for some reason it wasn't
and took out the bearings. I packed the new bearings with a molly grease and
forgot about them as I knew the bearings would last as long as the coach was
running.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #11 – October 16, 2021, 09:18:24 pm

Ran 306 miles today. Very little (if any) loss of hub oil.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #12 – October 16, 2021, 09:26:44 pm

Quote from: AC7880 – October 16, 2021, 09:18:24 pm

Ran 306 miles today. Very little (if any) loss of hub oil.

buttt is your brake and wheel still oil soaked?

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #13 – October 16, 2021, 09:45:49 pm

Quote from: bbeane – October 16, 2021, 09:26:44 pm

buttt is your brake and wheel still oil soaked?

I can see slung oil in a pattern from the inner hub. Doesn't appear heavier than before, at least on this 300 mile run. I'm pretty sure the brake pads have gear oil on them. No active drip anywhere, but bottom of hub is slightly wet.

I was real easy on the service brakes coming down the east side of Donner pass today. I stopped at the bottom, no smoke but a wiff of oil vapor. Close to smoking I think.

1750 miles to Nac, stops along the way. I'll be checking tag oil level several times per day as we travel. May run all the way to Nac, may find a place along the way that can do short notice service.

Edt: infrared temp checker says all wheel positions close to same temp. And tag hub was not hot to touch.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #14 – October 18, 2021, 10:21:12 am

I'd get rid of the Valvoline synthetic and go to old fashioned hub oil. My personal attitude on the synthetics in general....great for newer cars, wrong stuff for old iron.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #15 – October 18, 2021, 11:14:06 am

I used synthetic for almost all of our stuff and it's all OLD. The Powertech generator loves it. I would use it on the Detroit but it's really expensive plus I can't find any that is Detroit 2 cycle approved. I even use it on the transfer cases in our AWDs. Valvoline makes a great synthetic ATF and use it in the MBZs.

The high mileage synthetics have seal expander additives so should not leak. Ours don't. The engine oil may seem as thin as water when hot but it does not need to be thick for better protection than petro stuff.

New 2 cycle chain saws, weed whips, etc come with a bottle of synthetic oil.

Pierce

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #16 – October 25, 2021, 11:57:49 am

John's Truck Service Tucumcari NM. I used them once before on a previous coach.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #17 – October 25, 2021, 12:02:39 pm

Quote from: bbeane – October 16, 2021, 10:59:58 am

Your 2003 should have a uni seal. That is a seal that turns within it's self. Proper installation requires a driver to install it in the hub, then the seal is pulled on to the axle end by torquing the axle nut, then adjusting the Bering per specs. I suspect a damaged hub ( a scratch in the bore) or improper installation, you can't beat on these seals to install them. If up don't use the proper driver they will leak every time.installed properly they will last a long time.

To get you to Nac try removing as much oil as possible and put some Lucas stop leak in it. It can b had at Wally mart or about any parts store. It's thicker may help with the leak

As several stated, the surface the seal rides on has some blemises. And the seal that was on there was the type to spin on the surface.

Mechanic using emory cloth to smooth the surface somewhat, and getting the seal that spins on itself, not on the surface. Races and bearings look good (been on there less than 20,000 miles).

Still disassembled as I type.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #18 – October 25, 2021, 12:12:58 pm

Sounds like they know what they are doing. The rotor and brake pads do not look like they were soaked in oil.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #19 – October 25, 2021, 12:34:45 pm

Thanks for the follow up

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #20 – October 25, 2021, 12:39:13 pm

Quote from: turbojack – October 25, 2021, 12:12:58 pm

Sounds like they know what they are doing. The rotor and brake pads do not look like they were soaked in oil.

Already steam cleaned by the time I took the photo.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #21 – October 25, 2021, 01:21:20 pm

Well I learnt something new with the the bearing that spins on its self. In all the
years of working in the trade I had never seen that kind of seal. One of the things
I had learnt was to alway grease the seals face so the seal was lubricated for the
seals that rotate on the surface. Thanks for the update.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #22 – October 25, 2021, 02:40:00 pm

On the road again. Mechanic was a pleasure to work with.

Foretravel U300 in one of the bays, managers father's coach.

3 RVs waiting for service, and 4 big rigs towed in for repair this morning.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #23 – October 25, 2021, 02:42:09 pm

Quote from: oldguy – October 25, 2021, 01:21:20 pm

Well I learnt something new with the the bearing that spins on its self. In all the
years of working in the trade I had never seen that kind of seal. One of the things
I had learnt was to alway grease the seals face so the seal was lubricated for the
seals that rotate on the surface. Thanks for the update.

CRC seal.part number 47691

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #24 – October 25, 2021, 02:50:45 pm

Seal.

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