Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Topic: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway (Read 3289 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #25 – October 25, 2021, 03:05:09 pm

The same type of seal I upgraded to on my '81 crane. Different size and Stemco brand. Ended seal seepage

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #26 – October 25, 2021, 03:10:50 pm

It is a good thing to know about. I never had a issue with conventional seals,
use a speedy sleeve a couple of times.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #27 – May 07, 2022, 01:03:38 am

Revisiting this drivers side tag axle seal slinging oil (still), even though seals replaced three times so far.

If you read the 1st post (Oct 15, 2021), then look at the post with pics it will explain (post 1, then reply 6 and 7).

The surface the seal rides on has some blemishes on it. That "must" still be causing the issue.

It is still slinging oil, but not quite as fast as before. I leave the hubcap off and check hub oil level every travel day. Slow loss.

Post 1 in this thread was southbound on I-5 on Siskiyou pass into CA from Oregon, with smoking from the driver side tag (oil contamination on rotor and pads).

Same thing today when I was northbound on that same pass. After the long down hill with intermittent brake use and retarder use, same smoking brake (burning oil sling off the rotor and pads). Odometer was 123,220 to compare miles since replaced (info below)

Apparent enough that a pickup truck driver honked as he passed us at bottom of the pass to let us know a issue (I already planned on pulling into rest area just past bottom of pass to check the tag).

- March 28, 2018 Cummins in Coburg discovered the driver side tag axle seal was leaking gear oil, odometer 101,100. Replaced tag inner seal, races, bearings

- 12/5/2019 Nac MH Service discovered same driver tag inner seal leaking gear oil, inner seal replaced, OD 112,500 (11,400 miles after Cummins replaced seal).

- 10/21/2021 Tucumcari John's truck service, drivers side tag axle inner hub seal replaced (Odometer 119,323, 6,823 miles since last seal replaced)

- Today, 5/5/2022 smoking tag brake, odometer 123,220, 3,897 miles since tag seal replaced in Tucumcari.

Three seals, still slinging. What can be done to the surface the seal rides on? How difficult to have the entire hub assembly replaced? What is the part called? Sourcing it?

Old toolmaker in reply 2: "the area where the seal rides on the axle. IF and that's a big IF, the area where the lip of the seal rides on the axle is worn, there is a commercially available thin walled sleeve that can be used to effect a leak proof repair with a little lathe turning and loctite. "

Reply 6: "try removing as much oil as possible and put some Lucas stop leak in it."

Reply 8 and 10: "They ended up resolving by greasing hub bearings" (recommend doing away with oil bath and going to grease packing the bearings/race)

Getting tired of "repairing" the same issue, and possibility of igniting the oil sling on long steep mountain passes.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #28 – May 07, 2022, 01:18:30 am

The seal I was referring to does not spin on the axle or the hub it only spins internally and imperfections don't matter. I will take a picture tomorrow if I can find on in my spare parts.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #29 – May 07, 2022, 10:00:17 am

Quote from: craneman – May 07, 2022, 01:18:30 am

The seal I was referring to does not spin on the axle or the hub it only spins internally and imperfections don't matter. I will take a picture tomorrow if I can find on in my spare parts.

I "think" that is what they used in Tucumcari? Mechanic said the one he installed is one that spins on itself, not on the hub. CR Seal 47691, radial shaft seal. Honestly I am clueless on the subject at hand.

47691 cr seal - Search

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #30 – May 07, 2022, 10:43:48 am

Dan, those seals are very good, however they must be installed with the proper seal driver or the will be damaged. It is hard to believe that the seal could have been installed improperly 3 time!!! It just might be time for grease pack this go around.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #31 – May 07, 2022, 11:03:06 am

It is hard to see from the picture in your link if it is the seal I am referring to. The ones I have installed want the seal on the axle first then put the hub on. The opposite of normal seals.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #32 – May 07, 2022, 11:10:34 am

The ones I have installed specify installation in the hub the pulled on to the axle by torquing the axle nut per instructions then backing off and adjusting bearing.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #33 – May 07, 2022, 12:03:19 pm

I wonder if using Lucas Hub Oil (stop leak) would help? I would remove as much oil as possible externally, then top back up with Lucas. Could do that again after next drive

Doing a 4th attempt at mechanical repair on the hub seal is getting excessive on my wallet, especially after driving from TX to Oregon with current fuel prices.

I know I don't want to risk a fire from the oil sling on the brake rotor and pads. It was smoking pretty good in October and yesterday. "Normal braking and smaller mountain passes have not been an issue. This pass has some pretty good downgrades.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #34 – May 07, 2022, 12:56:59 pm

I would pack the bearing with a Molly grease put in a new seal and grease the
seal lip before installation and then forget about it.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #35 – May 07, 2022, 01:04:27 pm

Does anyone know which speedy sleeve would be the correct one? And it seems the same seal would be used.

The seal in use has 4.7670 shaft diameter.

Edit: I found this and it helps me understand: http://www.industrialbearings.com.au/uploads/catalogs/skfspeedisleeve_1338271826.pdf

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #36 – May 07, 2022, 02:02:04 pm

Are there any cracks on the hub?
Are the seal seating surfaces round?
When everything is installed, but the wheel, can you wiggle the axle shaft radially?

If you try, one-more-time, I suggest a Stemco Discover, or Voyager wheel seal with an anaerobic sealant on the OD of the axle and the ID of the hub.

Good luck...
Tim

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #37 – May 07, 2022, 02:40:37 pm

Quote from: TGordon – May 07, 2022, 02:02:04 pm

Are there any cracks on the hub?
Are the seal seating surfaces round?
When everything is installed, but the wheel, can you wiggle the axle shaft radially?

If you try, one-more-time, I suggest a Stemco Discover, or Voyager wheel seal with an anaerobic sealant on the OD of the axle and the ID of the hub.

Good luck...
Tim

This type repair is beyond my capabilities, so hired out. Reply 16 has photos and 17 comments on the photos.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #38 – May 07, 2022, 04:17:36 pm

Looking at post #16 has anybody slide the bearing on to the axel tube to see if it is too
loose. It should slide on easily but shouldn't rock.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #39 – May 07, 2022, 04:27:15 pm

Quote from: oldguy – May 07, 2022, 04:17:36 pm

Looking at post #16 has anybody slide the bearing on to the axel tube to see if it is too
loose. It should slide on easily but shouldn't rock.

I can't say for sure, but between the three shops I would think it would have been discovered. Especially by the last shop since he smoothed then emory clothed the rough spot on the axle.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #40 – May 07, 2022, 04:38:32 pm

Can you change wheel seals by your self ?

I think mine is leaking too. I can see the oil mark on the tires.

How much would a shop charge?

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #41 – May 07, 2022, 06:29:16 pm

Quote from: Running Odometer – May 07, 2022, 04:38:32 pm

Can you change wheel seals by your self ?

I think mine is leaking too. I can see the oil mark on the tires.

How much would a shop charge?

Getting the Tag or front end off the ground, ability (tools) to remove lug nuts and the heavy wheel, then dissemble brakes and hub is probably not for most shade tree mechanics.

When I was younger I did water pumps, clutches, brakes etc on cars. I packed wheel bearings etc. I changed water pump on a Cummins 8.3.

But for me, at my age and with my tools, and my location to do the job, it is too "heavy" for me to do tag or steer hub seal. (Note: other members on this forum can do work like this on heavy equipment and coaches).

Parts and labor, I paid $469.24 in Tucumcari NM for the seal replacement this last time. The other 2 times I had a long list of things worked on in addition to tag seal and can't break cost down.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #42 – May 07, 2022, 08:22:24 pm

I WAS contemplating doing my front brakes, no big deal right?
Wrong, on Tuesday I loaded up two blue spruce in ten gallon tubs, now it's five days spent since then in some serious lower back pain oh and the discomfort in my lower GI.
The day when I did this job in a couple of hours is apparently long gone so, the reality of being 70 and loaded with old injuries, broken neck, blown out knees ( no humor please) dislocated shoulder and lot's more.
Scared or rational, I'll figure it out when I get my trees planted and my potato tubs started.
Mick

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #43 – May 08, 2022, 01:37:41 pm

I found one of my crane seals and the pictures show how it works. Neither the outer or inner surfaces move once installed. See how the seal works when the inner and outer are moved. Imperfections in the hub or on the axle would have no effect. Too many mechanics to have all made errors on the seal if it is this type. Maybe there is a crack in the hub or another way for the oil to leak out.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #44 – May 08, 2022, 01:57:30 pm

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #45 – May 08, 2022, 02:36:14 pm

Looked through previous owner's documents. Driver tag seal replaced Aug 2004, and March 2009.

Plus our 3 seal replacements March 2018, Dec 2019, and Oct 2021.

My short term plan is to get Lucas Hub Oil to replace the standard gear oil, and brake cleaner spray to clean up pads and rotor again. Today I suctioned out 14 OZ of the hub oil and replaced with 14 oz Lucas Hub Oil. Next drive is 93 miles Tuesday to our home base where we will stay at least 4 months. I'll repeat the hub oil replacement there.

Long term plan is to choose the next place to attempt a permanent fix with either Speedy Sleeve or just another brand and design tag seal.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #46 – May 08, 2022, 06:57:09 pm

At this point I would give up on using oil in the hub and grease the bearings like we did years ago. Pack the grease in the bearings and you will be good to go for a good long time.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #47 – May 09, 2022, 06:09:04 pm

When I convert from oil bath to grease packed bearings, are any parts needed to change out? IE, Stemco "hub cap" with the red plug, hub seal etc?

My hub seal has few miles on it and was a slip on not press fit. Should it be changed at the same time?

We only have 93 miles left on our round trip from Oregon to Texas and back, so it will be quite a few months before I find a shop to convert from oil bath to packed bearings.

In the meantime, I removed around 16 ounces of hub oil and replaced with Lucas Hub Oil (which may slow and long shot stop the leak).

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #48 – May 09, 2022, 06:54:54 pm

Quote from: AC7880 – May 09, 2022, 06:09:04 pm

When I convert from oil bath to grease packed bearings, are any parts needed to change out?

352-4009 by STEMCO - Wheel Hub Cap Oil Vent Plug - Grease Hub Cap with...

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #49 – February 10, 2023, 11:09:08 pm

Revisiting the saga of the drivers side tag axle seal, and preparing to hire Cummins in Coburg OR to pack the bearings with molly grease, doing away with the oil bath.

QUESTION: Should I purchase new brake pads for driver tag in advance since that may not be available in the local area? Possibly brake slide pin(s) as well? OK to replace only one side tag brake pads, or should both be done at the same tme?

My "assumption" is the drivers tag brake pads are "probably" oil soaked beyond the surface area and cannot be cleaned??

I will call Cummins about brake pads etc after getting advice here. I'd like opinions first.

------------------------------------------------------------
History:
Drivers side tag axle seal leaking. Inner seal replaced 5 times.

- Previous owner's documents. Driver tag seal replaced Aug 2004, and March 2009.

- 3/28/2018 Cummins in Coburg, odometer 101,100. Replaced tag inner seal, races, bearings

- 12/5/2019 Nac MH Service discovered same driver tag inner seal leaking gear oil, inner seal replaced, OD 112,500 (11,400 miles after Cummins replaced seal).

10/24/2021: Driver side tag axle seal replaced at John's truck service in Tucumcari NM. OD 119,323 (6,800 miles since last seal)

Descending long mountain passes, even easy on service brakes & using retarder, driver tag is smoking (still).

I replaced the hub oil with Lucas hub oil (thicker), still using hub oil every couple hundred miles.

Advice and best guesses appreciated.

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