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Topic: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway (Read 3289 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #75 –
For the price you are going to pay I would definitely do some research on my own,I would not pack with grease on a design
meant to use oil,what specifically are they doing with the silicone?,it will not help with your leak,from your pictures it looks like
a previous seal ran dry and gouged the spindle,research seals and look for the same size seal that will ride on a different spot on the spindle,forgot the exact name but some seal makers have these for problems like yours.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #76 –
Quote from: AC7880 –

This is the shop at link, does both road service and have their own shop indoors as well.  Diesel Shop, Truck Repair - Mobile Diesel Service - Sutherlin, Oregon  They work on big rigs, have serviced fire trucks, and know air disk brakes.

What they propose is tear down, inspection of all components, cleaning up what they can in any metal damage/corrosion, new seal of different design, using silicone when placing new seal, and staying with oil bath lube.  New races and bearings at same time.  Inspect hub for cracks, closely check seal fit against spindle.

As a fulltimer, I asked they have all parts on hand in advance if we schedule this (seal, races, bearings).  They believe based on photo the brake pads are OK.

Thoughts? 

Last things first:  It's amazing how fast the work can be done the first time you offer fresh brewed coffee for their mid morning break.  We once spent the night in front of the tire store when there weren't enough tires to go around.

The spindle your have is welded in place.

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=43372.0;attach=127190;image

It sounds like you have a plan.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #77 –
You don't need bearings.
You need to find a guy that can figure out why your seal is spinning in the hub . Simple as that .
  Remove the other side , see where that seal rides, note the seal number and solve the problem.  Throwing the same parts at it again will have the same result . 
  Where would any silicone go ?  A light film of thread sealant or blue loctite around the seal may help. 
There appears to be a chance that the hub is worn where the seal fits. Measure the hub and compare to the other side .
Copy success

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #78 –
Quote from: Protech Racing –
You don't need bearings.
You need to find a guy that can figure out why your seal is spinning in the hub . Simple as that .
  Remove the other side , see where that seal rides, note the seal number and solve the problem.  Throwing the same parts at it again will have the same result . 
  Where would any silicone go ?  A light film of thread sealant or blue loctite around the seal may help. 
There appears to be a chance that the hub is worn where the seal fits. Measure the hub and compare to the other side .
Copy success

[unnecessary comment removed - Michelle]

This may be the company your latest shop is talking about:

Axle Surgeons

It looks like they cut the your old spindle off the axle tube and weld on a new spindle, that goes 7" deep into the axle tube with a plug weld to fix the inside end in place.

To the best of my knowledge, this is where the inner bearing race rides:

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=43372.0;attach=127188;image

Enlarge it and look at the transfer when the race spun at some time in the past.

Right now the only way to find the problem and fix it is accurate measurements.  For all the labor that's going to go into this a new pair of tapered roller bearings and outer races is inexpensive.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Repititive drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underwa

Reply #79 –
Caterpillar had a product to take up to .015 clearance on loose bearings and races. Similar to the product below.


Permatex® Bearing Mount for Relaxed Fits 50 ml - No. 68050 - Whitehead...
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #80 –
Cause of constant loss of hub oil at drivers tag axle discovered and fixed by shop in the post immediately above.

Bad weld from original build in 2003. Gap in the weld allowed oil to constantly drip then sling. Cleaned up and welded.  I am 99.9 percent sure this is the final fix, after 2 shops failed to find it with previous owner, and 3 shops failed to find it during our ownership.

Pics  attached.  I also have a very good small video proving this as the cause that cannot be attached here (soap, air, air flow with bubbles) .  If anyone want to see it, I can email it to you. PM with email address if you want to view it.


As per the shop (MOBILE DIESEL SERVICE, Inc., off I-5 in Sutherlin Oregon)
" Appears spindle was welded incorrectly from factory, welds aren't complete causing the leak."


Thanks to all who spent time trying to help us get this resolved.  And thanks to MDS in Sutherlin Oregon for digging deeper than just one more inner seal attempt.

Diesel Shop, Truck Repair - Mobile Diesel Service - Sutherlin, Oregon



Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #81 –
Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought about an incomplete weld.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #82 –
Thanks for the update. It might save someone from going through the same aggravation you experienced.

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #83 –
Quote from: Pamela & Mike –
Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought about an incomplete weld.

Mike
That's the sort of thing that keeps me awake at night.  Keep in mind that the traditional tool room is the destination of last resort for problems other people have already tried to repair.
Every morning I look in the mirror and remind myself that I'm paranoid.
Followed by the question: Am I being paranoid enough today.

AC7880: Congratulations!!!!! Mazel Tov! Happy trails! Did you leave your coffee on the roof of your Toad?

Did the shop use Loctite Pore Sealant?  You'd be upset to learn just how many aluminum transmission castings have been "repaired" at the factory in just this fashion.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #84 –
Great find by someone that took the time to really look around.
Well done by the tech.  He or she deserves a tip.

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #85 –
Quote from: Protech Racing –
Great find by someone that took the time to really look around.
Well done by the tech.  He or she deserves a tip.

Multiple people worked on it and looked at it.  They had the complete history of attempts at repairs, and looked deeper than the other shops did.  I took the shop 2 dozen donuts this morning when they opened.

Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #86 –
Quote from: Old Toolmaker –

Did the shop use Loctite Pore Sealant?  You'd be upset to learn just how many aluminum transmission castings have been "repaired" at the factory in just this fashion.

If I had found this myself, I might have cleaned it up and tried JB weld.  They welded it for me.
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #87 –
 Some old dodges had porous  castings on the auto cases.  The  factory fix was to hammer the cases into submission..

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #88 –
Had to Chuckle out loud. Build a couple fuel tanks to learn how to prevent in the future. Stops are very prone to leak. Great find. Who woulda thunk 👍👍

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #89 –
Quote from: AC7880 –
If I had found this myself, I might have cleaned it up and tried JB weld.  They welded it for me.

Grinding out that part of the weld and redoing it on both sides is the preferred method.  I won't name names but in General Motor companies with aluminum casting problems are quick to grab the Loctite porosity cure, place the bet that the chemical will out-last the warranty and allow the owner to deal with the consequences.

Once again congratulations but it should have been caught after the first repair failed.  Technicians need to look and not just do.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #90 –
Crazy to think how much was spent chasing  a repair. Time and aggravation also. Hopefully your able to put behind you.

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #91 –
Quote from: dsd –
Crazy to think how much was spent chasing  a repair. Time and aggravation also. Hopefully your able to put behind you.
Crazy to think how no one along the line thought to ask: "Why is it leaking?"
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #92 –
Quote from: Old Toolmaker –
Crazy to think how no one along the line thought to ask: "Why is it leaking?"
They couldn't plug their computer in to tell them what was wrong.  Fewer and fewer mechanics around.
Dave and Kelli
1997 U295 40' Build #5188 CSGI
1995 U240 36' Build #4621 SBID-SOLD
2006 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #93 –
Quote from: Dave Larsen –
They couldn't plug their computer in to tell them what was wrong.  Fewer and fewer mechanics around.
Except for my connection to the outside world, and even now I'm operating a 2012 13" Apple MacBook Pro, I gave up learning new computer systems decades ago.  Hence the 5.9l 12V Cummins.  I have better ways to use my time.

IF you want to watch some auto porn, this guy wades through the modern auto and repairs stuff the dealer can't or won't do without a massive infusion of cash with no guarantee the repair will work.

South Main Auto Repair LLC  on YouTube.

Lynn and I watch one every so often to remind ourselves just what a great car Studebaker made.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #94 –
Getting off topic here...
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #95 –
FWIW my guess is that there was oil on the parts being welded causing the two blow holes.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #96 –
I see the problem on #4 hub pic, your caliper seal is failed and the caliper slide is rusty and causing your brakes to drag all the time. This creates excess heat that will overheat the hub and blow the seal out or force the oil out ( leak). "Frozen" caliper is the cause.
🤯

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #97 –
See reply # 80
Richard & Betty Bark & Keiko our Golden Doodle
2003 U320T 3820 PBDS
Build # 6215
MC # 16926
2016 Chevrolet Colorado 4X4 diesel

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #98 –
Quote from: Digger337 –
I see the problem on #4 hub pic, your caliper seal is failed and the caliper slide is rusty and causing your brakes to drag all the time. This creates excess heat that will overheat the hub and blow the seal out or force the oil out ( leak). "Frozen" caliper is the cause.

Good catch on the caliper seal.  I'll add that to my future to do list for service.

They found the leak and welded it. But it does sure look like the caliper seal needs replaced.
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: Repeated drv side tag axle inner seal leaks (after repairs) Long trip underway

Reply #99 –
Quote from: AC7880 –
Good catch on the caliper seal.  I'll add that to my future to do list for service.

They found the leak and welded it. But it does sure look like the caliper seal needs replaced.


It is time to fix the tag axle caliper seal, and my local shop ordered the caliper seal kit.  What else should I have on hand for parts (and part number if known). 

I found pads kit part 15626PM. Is that what I need for possible corrosion due to bad caliper seal, or is something else?

Edit: Talking to repair shop, I think replacing only that damaged dust seal is needed, and only on one side. 

No impact to even braking or any other parts that I or repair shop can envision.
Thanks!!
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide