The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

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The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

October 30, 2021, 08:16:23 pm

Hello Foretravel Community,

My name is Kye McLaughlin, I have created an account on here and made this first post to bring some light to a mystery about a user here named geomm and a 1995 U300SE coach #4612.

Michael McLaughlin (geomm) was a somewhat active poster in the forums (mostly tech talk) about 5 to 10 years ago. Some of you may have talked with him about his adventure de-mothballing his 1995 U300SE CAT 3176 (#4612) as his pre-retirement project. His posts abruptly stopped shortly after he had posted his "#4612 Rolls Again" topic In April 2016, where he talked about finally getting the U300 back on the road for its first (small) maiden voyage to its new home in Southern California.

Well.... it still brings me great sadness to inform all of you that we lost Michael (my father) on May 29th, 2016 in a freak accident. He was surrounded by family when he passed but we were not able to have any time to talk with him before he was gone. As a result, it has been a whirlwind of searching for answers and piecing the puzzle together to figure out what happened and how to proceed after his passing.

After a lot of jumping through hoops and many complications since we lost him, I finally have the coach in my ownership and back to a registered and fully insured state. All this time #4612 has been sitting on the side of a house not moving or running. As I was going through his things I came across this website and found some of his posts. This has given me hope to get it back to life. I am mechanically inclined and have a good working knowledge of motor vehicles of most types but this is a pretty new level for me.

After some silent lurking on the forums here and other google searches, I went down to the coach the other day, put 3 new batteries in, and, to my delight, it fired right up and ran smoothly after about 3-5 seconds holding the ignition button. For 10-15 minutes I anxiously ran around it checking for any leaks or weird things I could see, not really knowing what I am looking for, or at.

Airbags filled, the coach came off resting on the tires and it seemed to be holding air fine. I turned the engine off after 10-15 minutes as I was thinking that was the ideal time between "only turn it over a few times" and "let it run to full warm-up" that I found in my searches for the best process of getting a big diesel like this to run after sitting for 5 1/2 years.

So here I sit, wanting to finally get this project finished and back on the road but without any real knowledge of where he was at in the process other than what I can see and what I have read on here

. Since finding the "Rolls Again" post and the fact the coach starts with ease I have decided the best thing to do to start this process is get new tires (even though these were brand new when he drove it over to its spot

) and get the main fluids checked and changed as needed.

Questions:
-Any other suggestions for things to check/change/service right away?
-Main culprits I should keep an eye out for?
-Does anyone on here know anything about this coach in particular, or my father's progress on it?
-Suggestions for roadside service/Clubs/etc to join/get other than the AAA I got with my insurance?
-Could anyone offer any assistance finding service providers in the Ventura County Area? Possibly mobile services?

Thank you all in advance.

Kye

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #1 – October 31, 2021, 08:52:39 am

I am sorry for your loss. It reminded me of losing my dad who was 52 in 1959 when I was 16. I still think of him and how I learned from him every day. Your dad had to be exceptional for you to get this far with the FT project. I live in Eugene, Oregon so I'm unable to assist you regarding the Ventura area. However, I am more than happy to help with any other questions by personal message, available to you from me on the forum. I will watch your thread and chime in if I can assist.

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #2 – October 31, 2021, 09:16:52 am

Welcome Kye to the Forum. I was fairly new to the Forum in the 2013-2016 years, but I do remember seeing posts from your father. Since his (your) '95 U300 is a model similar to our '93 U280, I would have been very interested in any of his posts. In case you haven't already found it, below is a link to your father's profile page on the Forum. That page contains a link which will lead you to every single post made by your father, ordered from most recent back to the very first one. You could fill in your profile page (signature) with the same coach info your father used. Having that info in your signature helps us provide better answers when you post questions on the Forum.

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2389

The way we all learn on this Forum is by talking about common subjects of interest to all members. The accumulated Foretravel experience and knowledge found here is priceless, yet it is available to everyone free of charge! The "Search" function, found at top right corner of every page, is a powerful tool. In many cases, if you have a specific question, searching for a few appropriate key terms will yield a wealth of information.

You will get some great answers to your questions, I am sure. Bringing old classic Foretravel coaches back to life is a favorite subject around here. What we suggest will depend a great deal on what you tell us about the current condition. It is very helpful if you can post photos when you ask about a certain item on the coach. Foretravel was famous for continually changing the components used to build the coaches. Two units that went down the assembly line the same day or week might be built with totally different parts.

About the tires. 2016 tires are close to being "timed out" but might still be serviceable for a short time. We generally suggest replacing tires when they get to be about 6-8 years old. If, when you acquired the coach, any of the tires were sitting completely flat then they must be replaced. A coach sitting on flat tires destroys them. If the tires were kept inflated the whole time the coach was parked, then they might still be OK. Cracks in the tread area that expose the cord or badly decomposed sidewalls are a red flag. Bottom line, the best idea might be to replace them and start out with fresh tires.

Good luck with your project. We're here to help any way we can!

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #3 – October 31, 2021, 09:25:07 am

Kye,

WELCOME!

Please let us know if your goal is to restore the coach for your use or if you want to get it to a condition for sale.

That would make a difference in what is recommended.

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #4 – October 31, 2021, 11:41:50 am

Jack - Thank you for the kind words. I will be sure to PM you if I find something requiring further investigating. I really appreciate the offer.

Chuck & Jeannie - I appreciate all the information and the warm welcome. I am learning my way around the forums so that information is super helpful with that, thank you.
As for the tires, they have been covered and inflated the whole time. My father put down squares of plywood on the gravel when he parked it, it has since sunk about 4-6 inches into the gravel/dirt that it's on. The tires look basically brand new, I have not seen any cracking or signs of damage to them. The coach body was resting on the tires as the airbags had either slowly deflated or my father deflated them when he parked it. Airbags filled right up when it started and it came off the tires with no signs of rubbing on the tires themselves.

Wolfe - Thank you for the welcome. My goal is to use the coach myself. I am relocating to Virginia/The Carolinas and will have the space to keep it and use it.

I look forward to learning about these machines and interacting with the community more!

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #5 – October 31, 2021, 12:29:56 pm

If driving cross country and keeping the coach:

Change all fluids and filters. As I recall, that Caterpillar engine has an aluminum spacer between block and head. That makes condition of the coolant extremely important.

Do a "smell test" on the diesel. If it smell "off" dispose of it. Do not run bad fuel through your expensive fuel injection system. Check the fuel hose (tank to filters to injection pump). Look for cracks where the fuel line goes into the primary fuel filter. Cracks may never show diesel leaking out, as that is in the suction side of the fuel pump. But, it can allow air to be sucked in and that can damage the fuel injection pump as well as reduce engine performance.

From sitting that long, likely the air disk brake slide pins are seized and could result in the "lazy side" not retracting from the disk. That can do a lot of damage. You will either need to study up on servicing of air disk brakes OR find someone who is familiar with them (I believe many fire trucks have the same brake system, so you may be able to find one of their techs who is interested in moonlighting. Install helper springs at the same time. Never allow anyone to use regular chassis grease on the brakes!

New tires-- even if they look great, they are at a much higher risk of catastrophic failure..

Look at air bags. If deep cracks, replace them.

Doing the maintenance yourself to bring this great coach back to reliable condition will run in the range of $10-15k.

I know this probably sounds like quite a lot (and it is). But you are talking about bringing back a 26 year old complex machine to cross country trip reliability. And preventive maintenance is almost always quite a lot less expensive than breakdown maintenance. And, a heck of a lot more convenient vs on the side of the road.

Just keep in mind that you are bring back one of the very best coaches/drivetrains of all times!

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #6 – October 31, 2021, 12:40:43 pm

Kye, welcome and sorry for your loss. Brett make a very good point keep or flip. These are genuinely different than a new diesel truck and I always seem to be reminded of a 1987 Cadillac Deville with all the crazy but needed systems. IMO great coach and project.
So any rubber product that is twenty plus years old is at the end of its life. I undertook a low mileage abandoned coach and it literally took me a year or more to get it back up to a dependable state. I do believe that anything that would normally fail during that time will fail in the coming months. Been fairly close to that but acceptable. Yesterday I changed the microwave plate rotator motor. It's seems to be never ending but certainly slowing down. We have accumulated about 15k miles since purchase and every trip we appreciate the quality of the coach more and more. That being said it's still dated commercial equipment and was designed for years of service mechanically. Great project if you decide to keep and I can't say enough good things about the availability of skill at your finger tips.( here) Many others have resolved what you are now taking on prior. 👍👍 learn to use the search function
Scott

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #7 – October 31, 2021, 01:26:57 pm

Welcome, Kye. I'm am very sorry for the loss of your dad. Your connection to him via the coach is remarkable. Your circumstance is the definition of a "labor of love". I am about 2 hours south of you in Orange County. There are unique challenges to owning a Foretravel in Southern California as we are a distant outpost. I would recommend getting involved with the California chapter of the Motorcade Club. You'll meet some really great people who are just plain fun to be around, and they have a wealth of knowledge on how to solve coach issues locally. We all have reliable and trusted local sources that we've found over the years. I can't think of a more worthwhile project and wish you all the best. Feel free to message me anytime. All the best.

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #8 – October 31, 2021, 01:45:58 pm

Welcome . Glad to hear that you are going to keep the bus and use it as your Dad hoped that it would get used.

This reminds me to make a list of things that I have done to my bus along with service parts numbers as Im sure that the bus will out live me .
I have replaced a lot of stuff with either more serviceable newer parts , or simply parts that I prefer. Any future user wil have a hard time without some guide .IMHO.

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #9 – October 31, 2021, 02:05:06 pm

REALLY SMART to keep a service log. Not only for the next guy, but as I get older I find myself referring back to it. "When did I last do that?"

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #10 – October 31, 2021, 02:09:44 pm

Welcome Kye, and our condolences on your loss. I had several "text/email" with your Dad, He did alot of work..ie Fuel lines etc. I have the identical coach #4719. We are located in Upstate SC near Landrum ,if you need help feel free to contact me.

Hans

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #11 – October 31, 2021, 02:46:57 pm

Kye I'm sorry for your loss but glad to hear his old coach wound up in your hands. I too picked up an old coach that had sat for a while. Here's a list of what I've put into my coach so far in the ~10 months that I've owned it. As you can see I'm a little shy of $6k and I did most of the labor myself. I've highlighted the items in bold text that I'd consider essential. I was fortunate to get mine with new tires.

I suggest you put the coach in "raise" mode and THEN inspect all your bags for leaks. Three of mine had internal failures that could only be noticed while under full pressure.

The first thing I would buy are 8 "safety blocks" that you can use to block the coach up while you crawl around underneath. Much of the work you'll be doing will require those.

Good luck and I look forward to watching your journey.

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #12 – October 31, 2021, 03:40:48 pm

Quote from: Elliott – October 31, 2021, 02:46:57 pm

The first thing I would buy are 8 "safety blocks" that you can use to block the coach up while you crawl around underneath. Much of the work you'll be doing will require those.

X2 But they can be 11+" long. Raise as hi as you can go and measure next to the air bags between the structure and make a little shorter. Coach should of had issued with when new IMO.
Scott

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #13 – October 31, 2021, 03:49:29 pm

Kye,

Another question that will assist us in offering you advice:

How mechanically skilled are you and how much of the work to you see yourself doing vs hiring it out?

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #14 – October 31, 2021, 05:31:17 pm

Quote from: Hans&Marjet – October 31, 2021, 02:09:44 pm

Welcome Kye, and our condolences on your loss. I had several "text/email" with your Dad, He did alot of work..ie Fuel lines etc. I have the identical coach #4719. We are located in Upstate SC near Landrum ,if you need help feel free to contact me.

Hans

Hans,

Awesome! I remember him telling me he had found someone with a near-identical coach to his, suppose that is you. I will definitely be reaching out as this thing comes back to life.

Additionally, the plan is to get the coach to our new place in the Southern Virginia area so they will be getting closer to each other soon.

thank you,

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #15 – October 31, 2021, 05:32:16 pm

Quote from: Elliott – October 31, 2021, 02:46:57 pm

Kye I'm sorry for your loss but glad to hear his old coach wound up in your hands. I too picked up an old coach that had sat for a while. Here's a list of what I've put into my coach so far in the ~10 months that I've owned it. As you can see I'm a little shy of $6k and I did most of the labor myself. I've highlighted the items in bold text that I'd consider essential. I was fortunate to get mine with new tires.

I suggest you put the coach in "raise" mode and THEN inspect all your bags for leaks. Three of mine had internal failures that could only be noticed while under full pressure.

The first thing I would buy are 8 "safety blocks" that you can use to block the coach up while you crawl around underneath. Much of the work you'll be doing will require those.

Good luck and I look forward to watching your journey.

Elliott,

Where is a source for these blocks or did you have them fabricated?

thanks,

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #16 – October 31, 2021, 05:42:38 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – October 31, 2021, 03:49:29 pm

Kye,

Another question that will assist us in offering you advice:

How mechanically skilled are you and how much of the work to you see yourself doing vs hiring it out?

Wolfe,

I am pretty mechanically inclined as I spent a lot of time working with my father on his race cars and other projects over the years. With that said I have limited internal engine/drivetrain knowledge/practice and would not feel comfortable with those types of tasks no matter the vehicle (not including small engines like lawnmowers etc).

I have more of a time issue than anything right now, so as much as I would like to get full hands-on experience with these tasks I will be looking to hire most of it out to get this thing ready for its first test voyage from S. California to N. California (Marin county).

I know that my father did a lot of the "plastic and rubber" replacements already including the fuel lines and most of the fuel replaceable/issue parts if I'm not mistaken. As you suggested, I plan to have all fluids and filters replaced when it is serviced.

thanks,

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #17 – October 31, 2021, 05:51:47 pm

Have fun with your Dads coach and there is a lot members willing to give great
advice.

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #18 – October 31, 2021, 06:01:08 pm

Quote from: GeoKM – October 31, 2021, 05:42:38 pm

Wolfe,

I am pretty mechanically inclined as I spent a lot of time working with my father on his race cars and other projects over the years. With that said I have limited internal engine/drivetrain knowledge/practice and would not feel comfortable with those types of tasks no matter the vehicle (not including small engines like lawnmowers etc).

thanks,

Kye,

Excellent.

Hopefully someone can recommend a reasonable tech in your area.

For those jobs you want to tackle yourself, just let us know what they are and we can help with the "step by step".

Actually, much of the "fluids and filters" is easier on a motorhome because of clearance under the coach, though volumes are higher. I would rather change engine and transmission fluid and filters on the motorhome than on a car with close to no ground clearance and under-engine shields. Just get a Rubbermade tub to catch the oil.

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #19 – October 31, 2021, 06:05:14 pm

Kye, I'm also sorry for your loss of your father. But having his coach will help in keeping his memory alive as you bring the coach back to life.
I'm in San Diego and would be glad to offer any advice/help if I can. Feel free to PM me.

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #20 – October 31, 2021, 06:11:37 pm

Quote from: GeoKM – October 31, 2021, 05:32:16 pm

Where is a source for these blocks or did you have them fabricated?

Some members have them cut out of 2" square heavy wall tubing stock. Others buy them from their local Harbor Freight store. The 12" x 2" receiver tube works great for this purpose. However you procure them, be sure to get 8 pieces.

https://www.harborfreight.com/class-iii-12-in-x-2-in-standard-receiver-tube-69879.html

The safety stands are placed between the frame members, just inboard from the air bag. One stand for each bag - 8 total. See thread below:

Safety Stand Placement

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #21 – October 31, 2021, 06:14:37 pm

Quote from: GeoKM – October 31, 2021, 05:32:16 pm

Elliott,

Where is a source for these blocks or did you have them fabricated?

thanks,

I used the harbor freight hitch extensions chuck mentions but ended up having to cut them down an inch. It seems some rigs can fit a 12" block and others 11". Now that I've chased down most of my air leaks I think I could get a 12" in most of my corners.

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #22 – October 31, 2021, 06:23:40 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – October 31, 2021, 06:01:08 pm

Kye,

Excellent.

Hopefully someone can recommend a reasonable tech in your area.

For those jobs you want to tackle yourself, just let us know what they are and we can help with the "step by step".

Actually, much of the "fluids and filters" is easier on a motorhome because of clearance under the coach, though volumes are higher. I would rather change engine and transmission fluid and filters on the motorhome than on a car with close to no ground clearance and under-engine shields. Just get a Rubbermade tub to catch the oil.

I feel like that is one of those big savings areas I can do. I do have couple of questions though.

1. I have been thinking I can do this myself but my biggest concern has been what to do with the used oil?

2. What type of coolant do these use? I read a post about having to have the coolant tested and then adding something to it to bring its SEP(?) content to the right level? Could I not just get away with a full drain and refill with the appropriate fluid type?
-I read in a post a while back that my father was under the impression the 3176B did not have the aluminum plate you talked about? Any chance you know if that was ever confirmed?

3. Is the transmission and rear-end fluid something easily done as well?

Thanks,

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #23 – October 31, 2021, 07:11:01 pm

Quote from: GeoKM – October 31, 2021, 06:23:40 pm

I feel like that is one of those big savings areas I can do. I do have couple of questions though.

1. I have been thinking I can do this myself but my biggest concern has been what to do with the used oil?

Thanks,

In our area, AutoZone and O'Reilly's will take used oil. Getting rid of the used coolant is more challenging. The only place I can find locally is the city Hazwaste disposal site.

Re: The mystery of user Geomm and #4612 Explained - Intro and Ask for assistance

Reply #24 – October 31, 2021, 07:20:29 pm

Quote from: DayDreamer – October 31, 2021, 07:11:01 pm

In our area, AutoZone and O'Reilly's will take used oil.

For dumping the used oil, I have also had good luck at our local Walmart and Sam's auto service bays.

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