House batteries and charger

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House batteries and charger

March 08, 2024, 11:00:22 am

Our House batteries and inverter/charger have finally reached their end of life phase. I had purchased some old MK gel batteries from California Flash Bob years ago and one has failed. Guess it's time to start some research on what to do. Probably will go towards the Victron multi charger management system. I do like the idea of the Bluetooth but also like an actual panel to view. The MK jell batteries have been good and would consider them. About $800 each but will stay open to other options. AGM and lithium. Really dont want to get involve with lead acid because of the required maintenance and corrosion issues. I dont have plans for solar but would require having a system that would expand/accept solar. Boondocking with what we currently had worked great for us and till now was very reasonable. Could probably replace with similar for 5K (guessing) but also like the idea of the Lithium but price can go up to 10k (Yikes). Seems to me a shame to spend a bunch of money on old technology but it is proven. No plans to go to an electric fridge. I would also purchase a half life system and push this issue down the road. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Links on deals would be real helpful also

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #1 – March 08, 2024, 11:11:57 am

Been a while since I looked at house batteries. Back in the day, if you wanted AGM batteries, the standard go-to Forum recommendation was the O'Reilly AGM8D. Without doing a search, I can't tell if they are still competitively priced, but at least worth a look (in the AGM category). Many other options available these days, so pays to shop around and consider all battery types.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/fleet-heavy-duty/super-start-fleet-heavy-duty-battery-group-size-8d/ssbl/agm8d?q=AGM8D&pos=0

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #2 – March 08, 2024, 12:09:10 pm

About three years ago I violated the "appropriate rules" and replaced our two 8D AGM batteries with two Battle Born LiFePO4 8D 270 amp-hr batteries without changing any other components (other than adjusting the charging settings on our Magnum inverter). Our modest solar system (720 watts) and our Leece-Neville alternator (160 Amp) have performed well and I am satisfied with the overall results. If we did a significant amount of dry-camping more capacity would definitely be required but for our usage we have had no complaints.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #3 – March 08, 2024, 01:04:46 pm

Chuck I think if I was to go the AGM i would upgrade to the MK Solar 8ds. Think I could get for $700ish. David the Battle Borns would be great but im just not wanting to spend that much. Averaged out over the next 12 years would bring the cost down, but doesn't help the sticker shock.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #4 – March 08, 2024, 01:37:44 pm

Quote from: dsd – March 08, 2024, 01:04:46 pm

David the Battle Borns would be great but im just not wanting to spend that much. Averaged out over the next 12 years would bring the cost down, but doesn't help the sticker shock.

If I were buying now I would probably go with 460 Amp-hr Epoch LiFePO4. Will Prowse has given them excellent reviews. For me the long-term benefits outweigh the high initial expense.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #5 – March 08, 2024, 02:31:15 pm

Check out Li Time batteries on Amazon.....

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #6 – March 08, 2024, 03:48:19 pm

Online, O'reilly Auto shows $526 8D AGM battery post model. Usually one can find ways to get lower prices when shopping in stores. Wonder if this store or other Auto stores have similar prices for 8D GEL batteries.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #7 – March 08, 2024, 03:48:38 pm

Several of us on the forum are using AmperTime (now LiTime ) batteries of 200, 300 or 400 amph rating packaged in 8D form factors. Some models even have cold temperature protection, not mine from 2 years ago. Will Prowse has torn down and bench marked many different LiTime batteries of various capacities and they always come up good. They are cheaper than equivalent useable capacity AGM batteries, will charge much faster and hold voltage under load better while weighing less than half.

At Quartzsite I saw a server rack battery installation of two 12 volt, 400 amph batteries that were also recommended by Prowse. Price per watt was fantastic, super easy to cable and loaded with features. They were installed in a U270 on a piece of plywood bolted to a server rack, original battery rack removed. He had room for two more batteries and was going for 1600 amp hours for a cost of $4,000.

I did install a 30 amp Victron B2B charger to protect my 160 amp alternator from overheating trying to charge my two 300 amph batteries. My Xantrex Freedom458 (2010 vintage) inverter/ charger is set to Gel2 which provides a good charge profile for my batteries. I emailed LiTime for some help setting the advanced charge parameters for my solar charger and they answered all my questions so my solar charger is completely optimized for the batteries per manufacturer.

In my opinion your cost for lithium is very high. With a few hours of YouTube university with Will Prowse and your skill set you can do this easily for much less. Then if you upgrade to a residential fridge you will be capable of running it and lithium loves solar.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #8 – March 08, 2024, 09:28:59 pm

Looking at Litime 12V 300Ah and the Victron multi plus II 2X.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #9 – March 08, 2024, 09:37:14 pm

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – March 08, 2024, 01:37:44 pm

If I were buying now I would probably go with 460 Amp-hr Epoch LiFePO4. Will Prowse has given them excellent reviews. For me the long-term benefits outweigh the high initial expense.

In my hunt for the batteries for my project, I approached Epoch several times for expanded information and was met with "not so good" experience. While their product looks technically good, there back office and customer service left much to be desired. It was a "strsngez" experience and thus crossed them off my list.

As noted in my recent thread, LiTime won hands down with service, responsiveness, follow-up and delivery on commitments. I personally queried every contender on my short list with a list of questions ranging from deep technical to mundane warranty handling. While some others were good, LiTime was at the top of the list and Epoch failed miserably after multiple attempts.

The name that keeps coming up is the Blue BB stuff. Fact is they are over rated, over priced and bought market recognition by "giving" batteries to virtually any YT influencer who would take them. Rumor has it their Chinese cell provider gave them $1m to spend "seeding" the market.

JMHO....YMMV

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #10 – March 08, 2024, 09:41:40 pm

Quote from: dsd – March 08, 2024, 09:28:59 pm

Looking at Litime 12V 300Ah and the Victron multi plus II 2X.

You won't be sorry.. FYI..on the Victron, the factory A.C. Coach wiring is not conducive to the MP II 120 X 2. FT's existing wiring to and from the inverter/charger is problematic and there is no reasonable solution that will not entail major use of expletives in the process.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #11 – March 09, 2024, 01:40:40 am

Scott, I replaced our Lifeline AGM batteries a little over 7 years ago and the ones I took out were 10 years old. We pretty much go pole to pole except for a few occasions. I know they are more expensive than other AGM brands but if your not ready to switch to lithium that's an option.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #12 – March 09, 2024, 05:50:23 am

Quote from: rusczyk56 – March 08, 2024, 09:41:40 pm

You won't be sorry.. FYI..on the Victron, the factory A.C. Coach wiring is not conducive to the MP II 120 X 2. FT's existing wiring to and from the inverter/charger is problematic and there is no reasonable solution that will not entail major use of expletives in the process.

The MP II 120x2 is fantastic. But I just removed the factory inverter and put the MP in between the transfer switch and the main breaker box. I located mine under the bed next to the breaker panel and moved the 12v cables from the original inverter to the new one. It now runs everything without issue. I have the bluetooth adapter for the Victron too and it allows me to monitor the status from my phone.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #13 – March 09, 2024, 10:09:56 am

Quote from: kgrover – March 09, 2024, 05:50:23 am

The MP II 120x2 is fantastic. But I just removed the factory inverter and put the MP in between the transfer switch and the main breaker box. I located mine under the bed next to the breaker panel and moved the 12v cables from the original inverter to the new one. It now runs everything without issue. I have the bluetooth adapter for the Victron too and it allows me to monitor the status from my phone.

So in reading about the Victron MP II 2X it is an amazing piece of equipment and would be a shame to not use all its features. Think I'll pull the coach out into the daylight and take a longer look at it.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #14 – March 09, 2024, 01:13:11 pm

Quote from: rusczyk56 – March 08, 2024, 09:41:40 pm

FYI..on the Victron, the factory A.C. Coach wiring is not conducive to the MP II 120 X 2. FT's existing wiring to and from the inverter/charger is problematic and there is no reasonable solution that will not entail major use of expletives in the process.

I'm curious about this since the Victron is the path I'll likely go if/when my Xantrex dies. Can you explain what you ran into?

This was the unit I had earmarked. It seems like there are at least two with similar descriptions from Victron: Victron MultiPlus-II 3000 watts, 12 Volts DC inverter, 120 Amp Battery...

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #15 – March 09, 2024, 01:39:40 pm

The single pole inlet outlet should be easy replacement for the SW3012. The double pole inlet outlet would require pulling a new power cable and Romex to use the features built in it.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #16 – March 09, 2024, 02:04:08 pm

When I needed to replace my house battery's I went with AGM battery's.
I chose Lifeline L -16 batteries.
6v- 400ah. each. I installed 10 batteries.
If you have the height you could probably fit a few of these in place of 8D battery's.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #17 – March 09, 2024, 02:56:18 pm

Quote from: WS6_Keith – March 09, 2024, 01:13:11 pm

I'm curious about this since the Victron is the path I'll likely go if/when my Xantrex dies. Can you explain what you ran into?

This was the unit I had earmarked. It seems like there are at least two with similar descriptions from Victron: Victron MultiPlus-II 3000 watts, 12 Volts DC inverter, 120 Amp Battery...

Amazon.com: Victron Energy MultiPlus-II 2X 120V, 3000VA 12-Volt Pure Sine...

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-MultiPlus-II-3kVA-2x120V-EN-.pdf

Because the MP II 2X can manage both legs in regards to interruption, low/hi voltage low/hi freq. it needs to be inline from the transfer switch to the main panel. Would require running to and back from it with guessing 6-3 plus a ground. Once I measure lengths and load requirements will be able to pin it down exactly and battery cables. I think you could just use as the prosine is installed but you loose so many neat features.
Wonder were my surge voltage protection should go before or after being it will fix low ac voltage?

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Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #18 – March 09, 2024, 05:33:24 pm

I put the surge protector between the transfer switch and the victron to protect it. The victron won't over or under voltage the system. I was able to reroute the original battery cables from the old inverter to the new inverter, but mine might be in a different location than yours.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #19 – March 09, 2024, 07:19:29 pm

Quote from: rusczyk56 – March 08, 2024, 09:37:14 pm

In my hunt for the batteries for my project, I approached Epoch several times for expanded information and was met with "not so good" experience. While their product looks technically good, there back office and customer service left much to be desired. It was a "strsngez" experience and thus crossed them off my list.

Epoch failed miserably after multiple attempts.

Please provide details. It's difficult to understand your objections to Epoch from your vague description.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #20 – March 14, 2024, 01:48:21 pm

I bought (3) 8D AGM Lifelines directly from Lifeline in person in 2016. I just happened to be driving past their facility on my way home from a job site and figured I would stop in and chat about batteries, this was right after buying my coach. I talked with the owner and he took 30 mins of the end of his day to show me their warehouse and talk batteries and inverter/charger settings. I walked out of there with three new batteries, and I haven't touched them since I installed them. I've had zero issues with them. I have 4 roof top solar panels that keep them topped off during the day while dry camping (I have a 120v fridge). I run my generator for 30-40 mins to cook breakfast and dinner daily and that is all that is needed along with the solar during the day. The batteries will last all night in 40 degree outside temps running the Aqua hot for coach heating. I do not use AC or roof air units while dry camping. I don't see any reason why I won't get 10 years use out of them, seeing as I am approaching 8 years now without a hiccup.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #21 – March 15, 2024, 12:05:55 pm

Quote from: evantwheeler – March 14, 2024, 01:48:21 pm

I don't see any reason why I won't get 10 years use out of them, seeing as I am approaching 8 years now without a hiccup.

I also had an excellent experience dealing with Lfelines over the phone. My Lifelines worked flawlessly for a little over 12 years. I would highly endorse them if you are going with AGM type batteries. However, after my Lifelines, I have switched to LiFePO4 type house batteries.

Richard

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #22 – March 15, 2024, 02:18:38 pm

Lots of li iron hospital take outs , on eBay . Great value imho .

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #23 – March 20, 2024, 12:18:11 am

Well I purchased the Victron multi plus LL 2X. Its too tall to install were my prosine was. It is acceptable to mount horizontally but not my first choice. Also mounted horizontally puts the cooling inlet and exhaust at the same level in the bay. No thermal cooling and you loose on cooling capacity unless you install a duct to pick up the cooler air near the floor. Would put a couple box fans in the exhaust but no room. Only have 19" from the door hinges to the aqua hot access door. Need 23". Will offset from bulkhead to accommodate AH door, but this interferes with the Joey slide even more. Pulled 6-4 cable from bed to inverter and back. Installed through floor using conduit and will seal inside and out before finish. At this point im second guessing what in the world am I trying to do. Really like the voltage and power management but had lived without it well. Anyway being extremely exhausted I took some more time looking at the inverter. The AC connectors are push in connectors? This is for a 50 amp legs L1, L2. This is not what Im used to. Again 50 amps? This is rubbish IMO. Also the inverter access for the power conductors are real small like they were sized for #10 and in same installation one could be using 4-4 wire. This is not a fun project with continuous issues. 20-20 hindsite I should of not got fancy with the inverter. And just replace with the single phase inverter. Im too far along to go back, but im considering it. Also got the 12v 300AH LiTimes

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #24 – March 20, 2024, 10:36:58 am

Scott I also got the multiplus, did wind up mounting where the old inverter was have not noticed a a lot of issues with heat, top can get warm to the touch but not bad,if was to do it again think I would mount on an angle for a little convection, I ran the 6/4 wire into a junction box then ran SO wire to the inverter, I think I had read that Victron does not recommend solid wire in the connection

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