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Topic: House batteries and charger  (Read 4834 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #40

We really don't need 2 leg output (we don't boondock) and our installation would also be what Scott had to do if we did 120x2. 

A little concerned with some of his last reported issues with the inverter itself, which is why I'm hoping for an update/recommendation.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #41
No issues with our original Multiplus.  And this inexpensive, simple switch accomplishes the Assist function on any of our 50 amp loads when hooked to 10-15 or 30 amp service using lithium for house batteries.  Does require Soft Start for AC operation. EZ monitoring on Cerbo GX.

https://youtu.be/gbKBoIvXNPA


Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #42
We really don't need 2 leg output (we don't boondock) and our installation would also be what Scott had to do if we did 120x2. 

A little concerned with some of his last reported issues with the inverter itself, which is why I'm hoping for an update/recommendation.
Ah,

I've had no issues with mine. I've run it on 50a, 30a, 15a supplies just fine. I've not had any issues with the generator either.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #43
Well It was a lot of retro work to install the double leg inverter. I have been extremely dissatisfied with it and its operation. I'm confident I'll be able to sort it out but actually put it on the back burner. I think it will end up going back to Victron and I'm confident they will take care of my issues. It is not internally switching from different powers sources and in there schematics they show an internal relay in the neutral circuit and I don't think it is switching causing my GFI issues. Still not being able to kneel happily makes working on it no fun. So disconnecting the L2 leg ( the reason I wanted it) more less resolves most of my issues. 20/20 hindsight its a hard pass for me. I so wanted to be able to mooch dock at a couple of our family destinations and currently it will not participate on a 15amp GFI outlet so it's junk to me. Hopefully I'll be more motivated next year. Non issue most of the way we use the coach boondocking.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #44
I'm curious.
I installed my Victron 3000 multi 12v several years ago. All was fine until I had to move the coach to my street to allow construction on the house. I thought no big deal,I will use my 50 amp to 120v power cord to keep all the batteries charged for the few days I'm parked on the street. I used this cord numerous times when I still had the original Freedom inverter installed and never a problem.
I plugged the 120v cord in and immediately blew a breaker in the house. I then tried another outlet/circuit in the house and the same problem. I eventually gave up on the idea of using the 120v power cord.
I had a Mobile RV tech come and check my set-up to see if I did something wrong, he found no problems with my install. I put this issue on the "way back burner" to someday address.
Scott, does this sound like the same issue you have with your Victron, won't work with 120v power source cord plugged into the 50amp outlet with an adapter?

I feel for your knee issue!
 I have my Victron isolator installed but was unable to finish the install before I had my knee done. Now I can't get on my knee to finish exchanging the wires and other electronics to the isolator and new solenoids and breakers mounted with the isolator.
No luck in finding a mobile tech on the far NW side of Chicago to try and finish the job before Winter.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #45
I wonder if the Victron charges the batteries too high a current for 120 volt circuit.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #46
Obviously the posters here set their Victrons charging profile to not exceed the amount of power coming in?

My magnum system works fine on 50 to 15 amp power cord downsizing. I can't Imagine a Victron not being able be set to reduced input power. I have used that function many times on my coach .

Interested in the details.  DSD is probably the most technically inclined owner I have ever met.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #47
Well It was a lot of retro work to install the double leg inverter. I have been extremely dissatisfied with it and its operation. I'm confident I'll be able to sort it out but actually put it on the back burner. I think it will end up going back to Victron and I'm confident they will take care of my issues. It is not internally switching from different powers sources and in there schematics they show an internal relay in the neutral circuit and I don't think it is switching causing my GFI issues. Still not being able to kneel happily makes working on it no fun. So disconnecting the L2 leg ( the reason I wanted it) more less resolves most of my issues. 20/20 hindsight its a hard pass for me. I so wanted to be able to mooch dock at a couple of our family destinations and currently it will not participate on a 15amp GFI outlet so it's junk to me. Hopefully I'll be more motivated next year. Non issue most of the way we use the coach boondocking.

The original Multiplus can be set to any input amperage. It's easy with the Cerbo GX interface but not sure how to do it directly on the inverter.  You can also select charge only, invert only or both. We routinely use this feature with the 120v adapter when driveway camping. With lithium and the switch discussed in the YouTube video posted we can use the Multiplus and lithium to run any electrical device, including AC with Soft Start. Obviously heavy load run times are limited by battery not input.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #48
SORRY FOR POSTING WRONG YOUTUBE VIDEO.

In my post, above, I spoke about a simple way to achieve access to all 50 amp devices on the couch using the original Victron Multiplus inverter.  Unfortunately, the video I first posted used the smart face selector, which was produced by a.m. Solar. That device and a.m. Solar no longer exist. And, although we had one on order when we did our original lithium install, hey a.m. Solar was unable to deliver.

The solution we found, however, was a simple manual switch but I inadvertently selected the wrong YouTube video to illustrate its installation. I've now deleted the incorrect YouTube video and inserted the one I originally intended. If you're reviewing this thread for the first time, you won't notice my error. But, for those who had originally looked at it, please go back and review the correct one I've now posted.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #49
We long ago removed the bath GFCI outlet and replaced with a regular non-GFCI outlet. Too many problems made the change practical. We are aware of how GFCI outlets work, but RVs are a different animal and the GFCI downleg fed other outlets, that may have contributed to issues.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #50
We long ago removed the bath GFCI outlet and replaced with a regular non-GFCI outlet. Too many problems made the change practical. We are aware of how GFCI outlets work, but RVs are a different animal and the GFCI downleg fed other outlets, that may have contributed to issues.

Upthread, dsd's issue is that prior to the Victron, he could plug into a household GFCI outlet with no issues, but with the Victron, the house's GCFI he's plugged into trips.  This is a residential outlet he's plugging into, not the GFCI outlet in the coach that's the problem.

Quote
plug the coach into a 20 110=v circuit that we never had issues with before and it trips the GFI as soon as the load control is set above one amp.  :headwall: So as a workarounds to that we went to a non GFI and it worked normally. In looking in the logic it grounds the neutral during DC battery inverter use. This explains the GFI issue. I personally really like what a GFI provides.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #51
@dsd  How did you end up running that wire?  Did you try and run it in the floor cable run that goes from the foot of the bed to the closet space, or did you run it out of the back of the utility/tank bay / under the coach and up into the engine compartment?

Also has anyone relocated the mains/generator transfer switch from the foot of the bed (for those coaches that have it there) to another location?  I was thinking that if moved it would open up space in the floor cable run to allow room for those new 6/4 cables to/from the inverter as the existing 6/3 lines would no longer be in that space.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #52
I'm curious.
I installed my Victron 3000 multi 12v several years ago. All was fine until I had to move the coach to my street to allow construction on the house. I thought no big deal,I will use my 50 amp to 120v power cord to keep all the batteries charged for the few days I'm parked on the street. I used this cord numerous times when I still had the original Freedom inverter installed and never a problem.
I plugged the 120v cord in and immediately blew a breaker in the house. I then tried another outlet/circuit in the house and the same problem. I eventually gave up on the idea of using the 120v power cord.
I had a Mobile RV tech come and check my set-up to see if I did something wrong, he found no problems with my install. I put this issue on the "way back burner" to someday address.
Scott, does this sound like the same issue you have with your Victron, won't work with 120v power source cord plugged into the 50amp outlet with an adapter?

Here's a few thoughts for you.  I don't have a Victron, I still have the Xantrex Freedom SW3000 unit.  While boondocking, I wanted to be able to run off a 2000w inverter generator, mainly to bring the batteries back up without having to run the PowerTech.  I have a 50a to 110v adapter as well.  I did need to add a binding plug that binds the neutral and common to get it to work.  I also set the power share on the Xantrex to 10a as when the unit would first come on, it will surge 3-5 amps more than this setting.  At 15a, it would pop the overload on the generator, so 10a setting it was.  The next issue was that when the charger started charging, it was set for maximum output (150a DC).  I had to reduce the charger output % to 50% to keep it from trying to pull too much from the generator.  I assume the Victron also has a charger max charge % setting too.  You may need to reduce this to get it to work off 110v.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #53
@dsd  How did you end up running that wire?  Did you try and run it in the floor cable run that goes from the foot of the bed to the closet space, or did you run it out of the back of the utility/tank bay / under the coach and up into the engine compartment?

Also has anyone relocated the mains/generator transfer switch from the foot of the bed (for those coaches that have it there) to another location?  I was thinking that if moved it would open up space in the floor cable run to allow room for those new 6/4 cables to/from the inverter as the existing 6/3 lines would no longer be in that space.
So I dropped out the passenger side of the bed area and headed forward with all the other cables into the downstairs compartment. I really like better separation of AC lines and fuel/oil lines but couldn't see a way to do it. Once back inside the lower compartment separated and secured to the ceiling inside. Also ran return power with it in 6-4 wire. It was a pain and then to have an internal fault really was a disappointment. It worked fine on external 240 volt ground power. I thought it was working normal on the twin legs of 115 volts of the generator but it was actually creating the L2 leg from the L1 leg causing it to overload.  This was with removing it from powering up the L2 leg. L2 is powered direct from the transfer switch bypassing the Victron. Then all the GFI issues and the single most desirable feature being able to reduce the load below the available duplex, was a difficult balancing act. 13 amp setting wouldn't work. 14 amp setting would work. 15 amp setting would trip the non GFI I ended up using. In wanting simple I now have a PITA. Great Idea in principle but will need more T/S. My goal is to reconnect the L2 leg threw the Victron.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #54
Here's a few thoughts for you.  I don't have a Victron, I still have the Xantrex Freedom SW3000 unit.  While boondocking, I wanted to be able to run off a 2000w inverter generator, mainly to bring the batteries back up without having to run the PowerTech.  I have a 50a to 110v adapter as well.  I did need to add a binding plug that binds the neutral and common to get it to work.  I also set the power share on the Xantrex to 10a as when the unit would first come on, it will surge 3-5 amps more than this setting.  At 15a, it would pop the overload on the generator, so 10a setting it was.  The next issue was that when the charger started charging, it was set for maximum output (150a DC).  I had to reduce the charger output % to 50% to keep it from trying to pull too much from the generator.  I assume the Victron also has a charger max charge % setting too.  You may need to reduce this to get it to work off 110v.
Yes it must be set to the power available. This was the reason we got it. 50 amps set to 50, 30 amp set to 30 15 set to 15. Generator set to 50. I should be able to be on a 30 amp circuit and run both ACs being supplemented by the Victron for starts and any required additional power. It will get resolved

Also on 15 amp circuit you are able to reduce to maintain proper voltage.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #55
I checked mine today and my multiplus gets both legs from the generator and powers both legs. Attached picture is from it running on the generator.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #56
So to follow up I did install the 40 amp DC to DC charger to protect the coach alternator. I had checked every thing and thought it was working correct. Couple days before our departure date I double, triple checked that it was working correct. On ground power 220 volt working correct. On battery working correct. On generator I came across an issue. It was creating the L2 output by consuming L1 power. It was not passing power from the generator L2 to output of Inverter L2. Rechecked everything and put a service call into Victron. At this point I was wondering if I had programed the inverter wrong? Double checked programming and saw nothing about inverter input, although the manual shows the different internal switching for different configurations. Next day still no call back and we are getting close top a hard departure time. Being that the inverter will not manage the L2 leg I decided to do a work around by disconnecting the L2 output from the inverter and jumper int L2 from my surge protector back to the L2 in the circuit breaker panel. I would now manage L1 and saw no load for L2 because it was disconnected and worked okay. BUT I now was only using half of what I wanted and lost all the reasons to purchase and install this thing.

So I've been digging some into the 2x120 and came across this little tidbit:

MultiPlus II 2x120v with Generator - VictronEnergy

"Your Onan 5500 is only single phase output. Even when the generator is wired as "split phase" output, the phases are not 180 degrees out. The mp2 2x120 will see this as a single phase 120v input and will only pass thru L1 and the L1 and L2 outputs will be tied together. Even though you may have both L1 and L2 outputs connected from the generator, only L1 is being used. Basically your generator is cut in half in this configuration."

Granted this is a different generator, BUT I believe the PowerTech 10kW is essentially a single-phase output, split into L1 and L2, but the hots are in phase, not 180 degrees out (if as OEM by Foretravel).  This might be what's causing the problem - the Victron 2x120 sees L1 and L2 in phase, thinks you only have 1 true leg of power, and drops the L2 power input.

Further good discussion on the same subject here:

Multiplus II 2x120 generator compatibility. - VictronEnergy

I'm going to PM Justin Cook at Bay Marine to see if he can add anything to this discussion.

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #57
I checked mine today and my multiplus gets both legs from the generator and powers both legs. Attached picture is from it running on the generator.

Is your generator still wired as 2 legs of the same phase or has it been converted to 240V output?

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #58
Hi all, @Michelle is dead-on here: The MultiPlus-II 2x120 expects 2 legs of split-phase 120/240 input. If L2 input is not 180-degrees out-of-phase with L1 input, the MultiPlus will not pass-through the L2 input and will instead use L1 input only, and short L1 and L2 output together so that both sides of the panel are still powered with single-phase 120v.

Some generators will provide split-phase 120/240, while others -we don't work with generators, but I've heard this of many Onans and other generators- provide 2 independent circuits of in-phase 120, in which case the MultiPlus-II 2x120 will do what's being described.

This behavior is also covered in the user manuals, datasheets, product writeups (in most cases, though it depends on where you're looking I suppose), and shown in the power flow diagram printed right on the front of the unit as well!

Re: House batteries and charger

Reply #59
Thanks for the information Justin.  Nice to see an actual expert in the field sharing the hows and whys.  That said, looking at Victrons' info is somewhat confusing.  I have a Xantrex Freedom SW3000 now, and would like to eventually replace it with a Victron unit. I've labored over the descriptions, trying to determine which option offers as much capability and functionality as possible, without have to reinvent the wheel like DSD did (running new Romex, etc).  I want a replacement solution.  I have kind of come to the conclusion that will be the original Multiplus, not a Multiplus II.