Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

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Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

September 09, 2024, 09:37:40 pm

I recently discovered that what I presume is the original AC to DC converter in this coach is not charging the house battery. I have had solar doing the job since I bought this coach 9 years ago and only found out because I am in the process of changing out my solar controller. I do have shore power now.
What should I be looking for in regard to the converter issue? All my other DC systems seem to be working as they should.

Update: I found an old thread related to this issue:
Anyone replace the Converter/Charger with an Inverter Charger in a U225 or U240?

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #1 – September 09, 2024, 11:02:30 pm

Any of the Progressive Dynamics converter chargers are excellent. Think this is the model we bought. 45 amps is plenty as your solar will do the work most of the time. Ours keeps our voltage at about 13.05-13.15 all the time. I keep a cord between the two lighter outlets on the dash and have twin voltmeters as seen in previous posts.

Progressive Dynamics PD9245C Inteli-Power 9200 Series Converter/Charger 45...

Pierce

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter Inverter Upgrade

Reply #2 – September 10, 2024, 08:28:42 am

An inverter/charger could be a wonderful upgrade path. That vintage coach probably had 12-volt TV and limited appliances. I'm thinking that you may have an inverter if you already have some solar. Having an integrated set up with auto changeover just makes things easier.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #3 – September 10, 2024, 09:36:42 am

Good point Dennis. This vintage coach is almost twice as old as yours. It does have limited appliances. It still has the original Magic Plus propane stove and oven, which I consider to be a plus. The previous owner had the TVs updated at Foretravel in 2015 and put in a new Norcold N811 refrigerator. I replaced the original Sharp microwave/convection oven with a Sharp microwave and added a Goplus countertop pizza oven which I store when it's not in use.
I have been using a 750 watt inverter and used the generator for anything that required more power than that when boondocking. This would be a good time to upgrade the inverter as well as the converter and probably add more solar panels.
I just bought a 20 amp smart charger to keep up my batteries while I figure and work this out.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #4 – September 10, 2024, 10:35:23 am

The problem with an inverter/charger is that all of your eggs are in one basket and if either part fails, you have to replace the whole thing. Unless the inverter is sine wave, the microwave is going to operate at a snail's pace. It needs the 177 volt peak that true AC has. And, the inverter needs to be around 1500-2000 watts to run the MW. Plus, the converter/charger is on the driver's side and the OEM inverter is on the other side so a lot of wiring would have to be done. We have three inverters, two sine wave and one old Trace that I purchased new in 1989. I found a almost new 2000 watt sine wave inverter on Facebook marketplace for $60 in the next town. I feed the MW with it. For maximum longevity, the inverter should run at about 2/3 capacity for long periods.

The photos show the converter/charger in the dirty compartment mounted by the water tank and the voltmeters are from right now with the house voltage on the top. The plug of the plug to plug equalizer cord is at the bottom of the photo. It keeps the engine batteries charged to the same voltage as the 2008 AGM house batteries. The coach is l never not charging the batteries with the exception of at night while camping and no sun for the panels.

Pierce

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #5 – September 10, 2024, 02:50:51 pm

Silly me. The #7 breaker in my AC service panel is for the converter and it was off.
I turned it on and it started putting out 7 amps. I connected jumper cables to my lifepo battery and it is now putting out 14 amps.
I guess I can return the smart charger when it gets here.
I'll continue this Days Of Our Lives saga in another thread but as for now, the AC/DC converter issue is solved.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #6 – September 10, 2024, 03:07:59 pm

How many times have I looked for my glasses when they were on my head?

We put a single turbine on a push-pull Cessna 337 that was going to fly to the Paris Air Show with the turbine DC-3 but after it took off, the engine quit and it landed in the ocean. Pilot forgot to turn on the new fuel selector. It was pulled out of the ocean, washed and dried and he taxied out but ran out of fuel on the taxiway. Forgot to turn on the fuel again. Conroy Aviation (home of the Super Guppy)

P

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #7 – September 10, 2024, 03:10:07 pm

Check lists anyone?

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #8 – September 10, 2024, 05:22:20 pm

Quote from: Jan & Richard – September 10, 2024, 03:10:07 pm

Check lists anyone?

Step 1. Check the breaker.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #9 – September 10, 2024, 08:57:10 pm

You might want to go ahead and replace the old converter as preventative maintenance. When mine went out it was due to over voltage and it boiled the battery and made a mess in the compartment of acid splatter too. I had regular wet cells back then. I'm not sure how often they fail that way but I recall another forum member having the same experience.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #10 – September 10, 2024, 11:16:04 pm

Hi John. I have heard of the boiled batteries and am monitoring the voltages closely because my current start battery is an 8D lead acid. I hadn't opened the 120 volt service box for 9 years (when I first bought this coach, installed solar and lived off the grid for 5 year) so I presume the converter has been shut off for that long. Maybe I purposely shut it off and forgot until now because I didn't need it.
As it it, I am revising my system and trying to consider all of my options. Right now I am glad it is working and with the shorter days of sunlight coming up, having a working and reliable converter would be a plus.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #11 – September 11, 2024, 12:09:38 am

Why can't you use a 40-60amp smart charger?

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #12 – September 11, 2024, 09:58:06 am

Quote from: Protech Racing – September 11, 2024, 12:09:38 am

Why can't you use a 40-60amp smart charger?

Yes, the Progressive Dynamics I bought IS a smart charger with different rates depending on the battery voltage plus it has a equalize mode every 21 hours to prevent stratification. An excellent description, charging chart and video here: Charge Wizard, 4-Stage Battery Charging System

I was never happy with the voltage on the old brand but this one keeps the voltages exactly as they describe. I still pinch myself that the house AGMs are almost 17 years old and have not lost too much endurance.

Pierce

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #13 – September 11, 2024, 10:55:17 am

Silly me #2. When I bought this coach, the seller told me there was a converter but no inverter.
After turning on the #7 AC breaker which is marked "converter", the converter started working and my batteries were being charged. This was a relief because my batteries have been charged by the solar system I installed when I 1st bought the coach and I am in the (ever lengthening) process of changing my old Renogy MTTP charge controller to a Victron which is suitable for lifepo4 batteries.
This morning I woke up and heard a strange sound. My ears are bad and I had a hard time finding what was making this strange new sound. Low and behold, after opening all of my bay doors I discovered it was the fan in what I believe is an inverter mounted under the stairs.
It was warm down there so I shut off the #7 breaker. Sure enough, that shut off both the converter and the inverter.
So now the ever lengthening process of changing out my solar controller has another twist. Actually, there are 2 new twists. I have 5 heavy cables coming into my battery bay. 3 positive and 2 negative. I now know which of the positive cables is from the converter. At this point I don't know which of the other positive cables comes from the alternator. Would the 3rd positive be going to the inverter? Why would the inverter even turn on if I am connected to shore power?
I have a slide out in the bay where the inverter is and I have now idea how I would get at it.
The good news is it is cooling off in the desert.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #14 – September 11, 2024, 01:43:43 pm

Your "inverter" may well be a inverter/charger and it is actually charging your batteries from shore power like it should. You need to get a picture of it for your research.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #15 – September 11, 2024, 02:17:54 pm

All cables and wires should have a band with a number on it so if you have the schematic, you can see exactly where each wire/cable goes. If you don't, you can download one or I can send you one for a 1993 U300/U280. Yes, as Dakota Slim says, a photo is worth a thousand words. A diagram where it's locatced in the coach would be really helpful also. The OEM inverters were super juice hogs and used a lot of current even when turned on but not loaded (idle current).

The converter will have a fan that does make noise when charging the batteries. No question is a stupid question. We all started at zero.

Pierce

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #16 – September 11, 2024, 02:58:09 pm

Very likely the OEM inverter is a Taytronics I-1500. See info in link below:

Taytronics Inverter Help

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #17 – September 11, 2024, 03:10:32 pm

Quote from: DaBus – September 11, 2024, 01:43:43 pm

Your "inverter" may well be a inverter/charger and it is actually charging your batteries from shore power like it should. You need to get a picture of it for your research.

Thanks Jerry. I dug out the owner's manuals. I see that this coach originally had a Parallax 7400 converter/battery charger and a Powerline 160 amp alternator. I have all the dc & ac wiring diagrams as well as the service records -- and came across an owner's manual for a Magnetek 900 series converter/battery charger dated 3/24/00.
I set up my 1981 Foretravel with solar panels, an independent charge controller and an inverter which worked great for 11 years. I basically followed that model setting up this coach and it has worked great for 9 years.
I'll try to get a picture of what's under the stairs as well as what's under the bed. I was under the impression the converter was down there along with the transfer switch.
All I really wanted to do was change out my old MTTP charge controller for one that has a Lifepo4 setting and if it wasn't for ferrules and a ground wire this job would have been done 2 weeks ago.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #18 – September 11, 2024, 04:55:22 pm

Taking this photo was one thing. Getting back there to do anything is another. Like I said, when I woke up this morning I could hear that sounded like a fan running and it was very warm in this bay.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #19 – September 11, 2024, 05:13:43 pm

Your Renology MPPT should work just fine with lithium, just set it up for AGM. It goes straight to the battery and not thru the converter/controller. Unless you plan to switch out everything so that all units are talking to each other like Victron, why upgrade?

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #20 – September 11, 2024, 05:34:59 pm

You need to upgrade anyway. My Xantrex 3000 works great. 3 years installed.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #21 – September 11, 2024, 06:05:20 pm

Quote from: DaBus – September 11, 2024, 05:13:43 pm

Your Renology MPPT should work just fine with lithium, just set it up for AGM. It goes straight to the battery and not thru the converter/controller. Unless you plan to switch out everything so that all units are talking to each other like Victron, why upgrade?

That's what I did, and it was working great. Then I read that Renogy says their Tracer controller is not suitable for lithium batteries and the battery manufacturer says the controller must have a lithium setting.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #22 – September 11, 2024, 08:10:42 pm

You definitely need to replace that magnetec converter as they are known as battery boilers. They are not a 3 stage charger, only one when the batteries are charged up it doesn't cut back the charge rate, so will overcharge the batteries and I am sure that it would not work with lithium batteries.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #23 – September 11, 2024, 08:46:12 pm

Quote from: red tractor – September 11, 2024, 08:10:42 pm

You definitely need to replace that magnetec converter as they are known as battery boilers. They are not a 3 stage charger, only one when the batteries are charged up it doesn't cut back the charge rate, so will overcharge the batteries and I am sure that it would not work with lithium batteries.

Thanks for the magnatec converter issue report. I'm not going to replace it. I shut it off like it has been for the last 9 years and will continue to use only the solar charge controller to charge the house battery and my trickle charger to keep the starting battery topped off.

Re: Troubleshooting a 31 year old AC/DC converter

Reply #24 – September 12, 2024, 04:26:30 pm

60A 100A MPPT Solar Charge Controller Battery Regulator Charger 12/24V PV...
I use these . You can set the charge voltage to what your batts like. I have used at least 4 of them. No issues . They take larger wire than the blue ones and have a nicer monitor panel . I still have one little victron that just wont quit either but not worth the moneyIMHO.
VEVOR Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter 3500W 7000 Watt 12V DC to 110V 120V AC...
This powers my AC to replace the low output voltage unit.

To be more exact. I have 3 charge controllers for my 6 panels. The Online math says blah blah...so I have the 60 amp versions. The most amps each pair has put out is around 42 max. So the 40 amp versions should work fine , used for 2 370 watt panels.
If you have 2 panels that will stay under 80 volts in series, I would wire them in series and use the higher voltage through the controller.This save cables and transfer power at higher volts( lower cable temps) . After looking at all of the online stuff that says parallel work better. I have tried it both ways .
A cable or panel fault shows up immediately @ zero output .

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