FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Topic: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's) (Read 3154 times) previous topic - next topic

FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

October 06, 2013, 07:51:07 am

I have not yet seen the show, but will. I hope this is not too far removed from the thread.
About a month ago, when we first got serious about buying a FT, we visited the factory. It is a ghost town. Very few employee cars, doors closed, no new coaches out front, very few people in evidence.
As old geezers we are very concerned about maintenance/warranty support. We currently have a m/h from a failed builder, and unique parts support has been a nightmare.
Is Foretravel in the throes of going bankrupt?
Is Foretravel

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #1 – October 06, 2013, 09:31:02 am

You might have been there during the time that the Grandvention was happening in TN, with new coaches and some of the crew gone as support staff.

They continue to offer service and upgrades by appointment, and were some weeks or months out on some of the schedules. They will have sometimes a new coach or several on the east side, and then the trade and consignment coaches on the north side outside the fence.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #2 – October 06, 2013, 10:39:24 am

Quote from: bacebird – October 06, 2013, 07:51:07 am

I have not yet seen the show, but will. I hope this is not too far removed from the thread.
About a month ago, when we first got serious about buying a FT, we visited the factory. It is a ghost town. Very few employee cars, doors closed, no new coaches out front, very few people in evidence.

Were you just there one day and was it a Friday? Production runs M-Th so there aren't many folks at the factory itself on Friday. Service and sales, though, are usually open. That's usually about 5 or so folks (3 salesguys, sales manager, reception kiosk gal). Typically there are 2-3 new coaches out front. Since you mentioned it was about a month ago, if it happened to be the Friday of Labor Day weekend, they may have closed early to give service employees an even longer weekend.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #3 – October 06, 2013, 02:03:08 pm

No, actually both trips where I observed this were in the middle of the week and nowhe r e near Labor Day. Zero coaches out front, but some folks doing repair out in back. Apparently no new stuff around.
I want to get a FT, just anxious not to get hung out on a limb...again.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #4 – October 06, 2013, 02:15:01 pm

Having spent a fair amount of time at Foretravel ? I wonder if you were actually at Foretravel, or there is a missing part of this story I think, just total different than anything I have experienced.
Did you stop and enter the show room or were you expecting them to come to your door ?

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #5 – October 06, 2013, 02:38:14 pm

Bacebird,

Foretravel is a profitable business at the current level of activity. They do an incredible job of supporting their product, with James Triana available to all owners as technical support, going back at least to the 1980's vintage coaches.

Foretravel would probably gone out of business had Mr. Dane Miller not bought the company around the 2005 time frame. Since then FT has right sized and come out with a new high end coach, and is also expanding into new markets with commercial shells.

Mr. Miller made his fortune at Bio-Met in Warsaw Indiana. One of his Hobbies is his 126 foot yacht, while his delightful wife owns Mary Lou Racing, which fields the #70. Foretravel car in the Nationwide series driven by Joanna Long.

While I am sure Mr. Miller is looking for a return on his investment, my take is that Foretravel is well funded and profitable even at the current business volume.

Since a substantial amount of their steady revenue stream is repair and remodel of used Foretravels, I expect their great support to continue going forward.

Good luck to you in your search, if you end up with a Foretravel, you won't be unhappy.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #6 – October 06, 2013, 03:19:44 pm

I do not have concerns of FT not being a going concern. They just opened a new product line that I think will takeoff great. Their coach is the best production coach out there that us not a Liberty on a Prevost Chassis. I would put one of the new IH coaches up against a Newell as well. I do not think you get much more for an extra million bucks. You do get a steering tag though and that is neat up very expensive to fix.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #7 – October 06, 2013, 08:40:09 pm

Mr Bracebird ; I have read all so far . Suggest you phone them at 800 955 6226 , then ext 120 ask for Lance Hays , he knows what's going on there , and is a great guy to talk with . When you show up cold turkey it reduces your chance on doing anything . Brad Metzger

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #8 – October 06, 2013, 09:25:38 pm

I agree Brad. I would not show up at a real estate office cold turkey to shop for a million dollar home. You need to establish a relationship and communicate your needs in order to make a successful purchase.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #9 – October 07, 2013, 09:22:55 am

I am very surprised at your experience as well. We have been to the factory at least two times per year the last five years and there has always been activity around the southern most building complex. The repair and remodel shop were always active, even around Christmas. However there are not always new coaches out front and you don't see lots of cars around the production buildings but their business seems sound.

Sorry you came away with a negative impression. We have always felt very good about our visits to the factory even though our coach is twenty years old we have been treated with respect and care.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #10 – October 07, 2013, 10:09:14 am

Just came back from Foretravel and they are booked several weeks in advance for service and remodel. No new coaches out front; but, they have sent some to their new dealer in Alvarado-- Motor Home Specialist. Not sure how many spec motorhomes are being built but most are built to order. Does not appear their horse trailer idea is working very well. On site were several IH-45 units but each had been sold I think. There were several headlight conversions being done. Things seem normal. Not a lot of consignment coaches but Tyle Fore indicated they have several coming in. DAN

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #11 – October 07, 2013, 10:09:34 am

If Foretravel were having a problem, don't think you would be seeing a race car with their logo on the side on national TV. You have no idea how expensive it is to campaign a race car in NASCAR's Nationwide Series.

Pierce

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #12 – October 07, 2013, 11:19:21 am

Been thinking about this bracebird thing . Feel that it is bogus from the get go . Things said that do not add up one bit . Some people stir the pot to watch it spill over . All Forum members know exactly what you see when you go to FOT . I expect we are seeing something here from a sour service provider from several hundred miles up the road . Think about the timing and what went on while we were the GV in Tenn. Brad Metzger

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #13 – October 07, 2013, 11:31:17 am

Well,
I don't think they are going belly up, though I am not an accountant with information. I just recently spoke with the service dept and they are booked up I think he said for 6 weeks (I was asking about doing something to my coach). I noted to them that maybe they should hire more folks. I have taken my FT in for service and with the charges (probably fair) were not cheap. It seems unlikely that they are not making some money off of my work. With regard to the new coach sales and profits, I guess they could be losing money. I would think if they are selling, then they are probably fine. If the coaches are not selling then there certainly could be an issue. FWIW, I am glad to have them available and have been very happy with the work that they have done for me. Yes, not cheap but happy with results.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #14 – October 08, 2013, 12:39:02 am

I wonder anyone of you think this .... For years I have said If Ford, Chevy & Dodge bring some of their 65-69 brands & styles with new technology and make it affordable (at least to some portion of the income bracket) they would sell like hot cakes. Finally they listen to me

(and everyone else) Look at what they did with the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger and Charger.
If I was FT while building custom million dollar models, I would bring back the mid entry Grand Villa with angled front windshield back and build three 36" models for 250K (325hp), 350K (375hp) & 450K (425hp). I believe they can still build it with FT quality and still make profit. I believe they will sell like hot cakes no ? Build them simple & functional. For example use a household fridge instead of the 3-4K fridge; perhaps the 3 way functional fridge will be a upgrade. Don't use leather but use good quality fabric ... There are so many ways it can be done and done right and profitable.
Anyway

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #15 – October 08, 2013, 06:42:39 am

I asked that very question and the cost issue is the chassis. They are making shells on freightliner chassis now but that would not be a FT. Also the GV style after the bus front came out just did not sell. Maybe now it will but you can get a mid entry in the current style too.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #16 – October 08, 2013, 11:37:26 am

I do know that David Flannagan's remodel shop doubled the number of employees in the last year...Whenever we have been in for service/remodeling ALL the bays are full, every day... They have at least 3 full time sale people out front, so they must be selling something?

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #17 – October 08, 2013, 01:41:56 pm

Quote from: John S – October 06, 2013, 03:19:44 pm

I do not have concerns of FT not being a going concern. They just opened a new product line that I think will takeoff great. Their coach is the best production coach out there that us not a Liberty on a Prevost Chassis. I would put one of the new IH coaches up against a Newell as well. I do not think you get much more for an extra million bucks. You do get a steering tag though and that is neat up very expensive to fix.

If memory serves me parts of the Newell are aluminum skinned. Too easily damaged and a conductor of heat and cold.

Can't imagine scraping the painted, aluminum sidewall with small tree branches the my gel coat 97 shakes off.

Bob

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #18 – October 14, 2013, 11:29:11 pm

Mostly for Brad:
Reply from "Bogus" Bacebird. We have visited the factory on two separate occasions, have talked in person twice with Tyle Fore and once with Paul Tinkle. We have even walked through the original coach on the showroom floor. Our concern and statements are exactly as was written. We WANT a Foretravel, and were trying to be up front as we have previously been burned by the crashing of the builders of two of the seven RV's that we have owned. Sorry if you were offended by our legitimate question. Old coots are that way.
We are delighted to have received the assurances that have been put forth on this forum. Thanks to all who have addressed our concerns. We plan

to soon be an owner.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #19 – October 15, 2013, 11:56:00 am

In this day and age, I think any top of the line companies are subjected to failure. The best can go under just as fast as the worst. And the publicly owned companies can go under just as quickly as the family owned ones. The are some ruthless folks out there who specialize in killing any company that they can get their hands on, provided they can make a quick buck in doing so. And regretfully they are doing it to some excellent companies.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #20 – October 15, 2013, 01:02:43 pm

Anyone that was around FOT this week would certainly have the impression that the company is a going concern. As I mentioned in another post, there were 25 coaches parked in the overnight lot Sunday night. Most were waiting for service. But I have also heard that they are building less than 10 new coaches per year. Hard to imagine they can make it on that.

In contrast, one company that seems to be doing very well is Tiffin. In our travels this summer we have seen Allegro and Phaeton coaches everywhere we went.... new and old. And often multiple coaches in a single park. I think we saw maybe five FTs this summer. When we left the Asheville park there were 5 Tiffin coaches parked in a row and it was not a rally. Amazing. They must be doing something right. Like I said, some of the Allegro coaches look like they date back into the '90s and are still going. I'm not saying they are as good as a FT, but maybe good enough.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #21 – October 15, 2013, 01:24:47 pm

Quote from: PatC – October 15, 2013, 11:56:00 am

In this day and age, I think any top of the line companies are subjected to failure. The best can go under just as fast as the worst.

A big part of the most recent departure of many companies is that they got caught with big loans outstanding; often for flooring. This has happened to a lot of the mobile home manufacturers who were using bank loans to finance models on various sites. When the fecal matter hit the fan in 2008 and the banks called those loans they couldn't pay them off with those homes.

Foretravel might be pretty smart to only build 10 motor homes a year as long as they don't have to take out a loan to do it. And at $1.2mil per motor home that might be enough to keep them going.

Tiffin, on the other hand, might be a bit nervous if the dire economic predictions revolving around October 17th come to pass.

Craig

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #22 – October 15, 2013, 02:33:17 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – October 15, 2013, 01:02:43 pm

Anyone that was around FOT this week would certainly have the impression that the company is a going concern. As I mentioned in another post, there were 25 coaches parked in the overnight lot Sunday night. Most were waiting for service. But I have also heard that they are building less than 10 new coaches per year. Hard to imagine they can make it on that.

In contrast, one company that seems to be doing very well is Tiffin. In our travels this summer we have seen Allegro and Phaeton coaches everywhere we went.... new and old. And often multiple coaches in a single park. I think we saw maybe five FTs this summer. When we left the Asheville park there were 5 Tiffin coaches parked in a row and it was not a rally. Amazing. They must be doing something right. Like I said, some of the Allegro coaches look like they date back into the '90s and are still going. I'm not saying they are as good as a FT, but maybe good enough.

I think you might find that many of the coaches at FOT where there now for the Ladies Driving School. What you see a lot of in RV parks or on the road does not equate to good business for a manufacture. We saw a lot of Monaco's running around and they went belly up when their loans were called in by the banks. If Tiffin has major loans out, they too run the risk of following Monoco as well. Nobody with the funds today want a coach that looks like the 90's. Those days are gone and many look for the new features. If you like the 90's look, then you are best off buying a used unit.

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #23 – October 15, 2013, 03:27:43 pm

Quote from: anny – October 15, 2013, 02:33:17 pm

Nobody with the funds today want a coach that looks like the 90's. Those days are gone and many look for the new features. If you like the 90's look, then you are best off buying a used unit.

While this can be true... the new higher mpg coaches look remarkably like the 90s Grand Villas with streamlined front and rounded roof edges. This was what we were looking for. The Euro look will catch on even more if diesel gets above $5 and stays there.

I've been wrong about trends before though... so it's never fully predictable. I grew up in an era where you would never hear anyone say "it's so dated" or find them junking perfectly good appliances simply to buy different models for the "look". Unless it was a wood burning cook stove; which, oddly enough, they now want....

Craig

Re: FT financial stability? (split from Re: FT IH-45 featured on Travel Channel's Extreme RV's)

Reply #24 – October 15, 2013, 05:03:17 pm

Well count me as a person "without funds." And I don't want a coach that looks like the 90s either. My point, perhaps I was unclear, was that there are many Tiffin coaches on the road that are 10-15 years old. That says a lot, at least to me.

Another thing that impresses me about Tiffin is their new line of smaller diesel pusher coaches.... 34' of so. Very nice looking and they seem to be selling well. A number of us have suggested that FT go this route and sell a quality coach in shorter lengths for those "without funds."

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