Rear Bulkhead Repair

Topic: Rear Bulkhead Repair (Read 7631 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #75 – January 26, 2017, 09:54:51 am

Pamela and Mike....Scott and we have 2001 but the photo I put of the separation along the bay seam was an earlier coach. The other coach I spoke of with flooded bay was an 05 and I think fresh tank issues besides....I had also on an 05.

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #76 – January 26, 2017, 09:57:25 am

Thanks Scott, you have a good attitude about this problem.
Take care
JohnH

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #77 – January 26, 2017, 07:00:46 pm

John - All of the welds are on the vertical sides of the joints. The seams where the square tubing runs along side each other the welds are on the top and bottom. There have been a lot of conversation between the welder and MOT re: weld/assembly configuration. I believe our repair is their third and Michael's is the second. At this time, I believe they have replicated the FT fabrication methods with the exception of increasing the wall thickness of the square structural tubing. MOT is not taking this repair lightly and I think they are working hard to provide the best welded assembly that they can.

Pamela & Mike -
quote "Does your H20 tank back up to the rear bulkhead on your coach?
Is the H20 tank vent line still a green & white corrugated plastic line?" quote

Our fresh water tank is in front of the gray and black tanks. The gray and black tanks are close to the bulkhead. I have not eyeballed the fresh water tank overflow tubing. I understand it comes out of the coach in front of the rear wheels, outside of the coach structure. Will try to put some eyes on it tomorrow and let you know.

They should finish up with us tomorrow. They are using a new fiberglass pan piece and are putting a number of screws through the edges. So far the edges look flat and clean.

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #78 – January 26, 2017, 07:54:08 pm

Scott,

With the fresh tank location you shouldn't have a big problem with condensation during weather change. On coaches with the fresh tank next to the rear bulkhead you have more of a sweating problem. In this case if the inside bulkhead seam/calk has a split you can get water to the top of the rear bulkhead without even knowing it.

The reason for the vent line question is that green corrugated hose has a bad habit about leaking where it is connected to the tank. The screw hose clamp don't always seal off the hollow area that is created in the area of the white corrugation. I know of one owner that replaced water pump, manifold, and all related piping trying to find and fix a leak, the leak was fixed when we changed out the vent hose with one that has a smooth inside.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #79 – January 26, 2017, 08:15:49 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – January 26, 2017, 07:54:08 pm

The reason for the vent line question is that green corrugated hose has a bad habit about leaking where it is connected to the tank. The screw hose clamp don't always seal off the hollow area that is created in the area of the white corrugation.

I don't know if was OEM, but when I pulled my hose off the tank I noticed there was silicone in the connection. I assumed it was to seal up the corrugation rut.

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #80 – January 26, 2017, 08:43:33 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – January 25, 2017, 11:07:03 pm

To accomplish this, a flat bar the same wall thickness as tubing that can be wider than tube and maybe 6" long is first chamfered at the under end edge that goes against the original and a neat weld is laid to join this F Bar to old tube. The new tube has the top section (wall thickness only) removed and also 6" long so that when it is pressed up to flat bar it makes the original size of new tube. If there are 4 joining tubes from new to old then you do this for each one. This joint is now welded on the sides, bottom and now along the flat bar/ tube join which gives you a 100 % weld(or as close as possible too one) and will stop any possible flex (opening) of that joint.

Why not remove 3"- 4" of the bottom section (wall thickness only) of the new tube, weld the top and two sides of the new and old tubes together from inside the opening, then replace (weld) the removed piece on the bottom for 100%?

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #81 – January 26, 2017, 09:31:18 pm

T man, that idea is in line with what I suggested so you can get a bead along the top inside then weld it all back together. Both do the same thing if I am reading you right.
I took off my both fenders covering the rear tires today in readiness for the new air bags. I am going to clean up under there and paint with enamel black and also caulk a few areas that I want to control any road water thrown up by tires. All looks good at the joins and I took out the Rolocks in front of tires just in case. There was no noticable rust etc on them and using a fine flashlite beam I could get a glimpse of the tube and it looks ok. Rolocks replaced and torqued with out a hitch. I will cover them again when I do rest of work in wheel wells. Loosened up all nuts etc on bags then sprayed Liquid wrench on threads and tightened up so they will be easy to replace once here.
Tomorrow finish up the Aquahot service and pump replacement on friends CCoach. New buner jet and now no smoke on start up. The igniters were out of alignment and this was a new unit 3 yrs ago. Lousy fitting. Had a bad air lock in lines so finished up removing his whole dash to get at front unit. Took it out and the one under fridge then blew lines out and rads. No blockages, put it all back and front one now works good but other on that loop still not right. Guess we will break the lines at rad and hope any air comes out. Fun in the sun they say. Good learning lesson.
JohnH

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #82 – January 27, 2017, 01:59:36 pm

My coach was one that Bernd worked on this past summer to replace the entire floor frame AND the front and rear bulkheads. It's a 2004 model but I think it had the Perfect Storm combination of water intrusion from the wet bay, the pump bay and a bad bay door seal as well as bulkhead issues. The standard (non-marine) plywood that FT used as a fastening base for the hose reels and the water pump / water lines turned to mush and held water. The frame was rusted through at all four corners and there was major rust in most of the other areas. It appeared the original frame was not treated for rust prevention at the factory.

The coach had been inspected for bulkhead problems several times. As mentioned in this thread, the real damage can be hard to see without removing some of the fiberglass cover. In my case, I was at Xtreme having a damaged bad door worked on and only after removing some trim, dis the problem become visible.

I personally degreased, primed and painted the entire new frame with POR-15 after it was built. The fiberglass top and bottom were glued on but the bottom has not stuck well in several areas. In one of the posts above, it was mentioned that painting the bottom of the frame was not done so as to improve the gluing of the fiberglass. If I had known this would be a problem, I still would have painted the bottom but had aluminum or thin stainless used as a cover.

Yes, my insurance covered the cost under comprehensive. They agreed it was water damage. The cost was over $25 coach bucks which included new stainless bulkheads.

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #83 – January 27, 2017, 02:45:27 pm

Maybe this would be the ticket for adhering the filon;

GE Iron Grip 100% Silicone Adhesive | Sticks Where Others Won't

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #84 – January 27, 2017, 06:57:11 pm

That looks like some good stuff!

Bulkhead repair complete

Reply #85 – January 27, 2017, 09:07:14 pm

Our bulkhead experience is over as of 5:30PM tonight - thank G--. The cost was about $4K +/-. Detailed billing - can't complain. I would rather that this experience did not happen and am glad it is done.

I would encourage all with a coach of our vintage/construction to have it inspected by a qualified person. I do not know of a better place for this inspection than MOT. They are doing two more rebuilds next week and have a couple of inspections for next week as well. This comment is not being made to scare anyone but it is important. We would have never known about our problem if Keith R had not taken the extra minute to look closer and recommend a further inspection. I believe they have formulated a two step inspection process and will open the bottom if it appears to be necessary. In other words they will not open an inspection area unless they feel it is warranted and will certainly share their concern with you before they do anything.

Everyone at MOT was great. Hats off to Keith R. He watched the process all of the way through to assure that things were being done the way they should be.

Keith did check the fresh water overflow drain to make sure that the fixture was not leaking and everything else is good.

We will stay at Camp FT tonight and tomorrow. We will provision for the trip to AZ and get some much needed down time and start to make our way on Sunday AM - I think. Still need to do a couple of things to the coach to make her ready.

Thanks to George and Stephie for holding our hands and for the great conversation and companionship during this experience.

Also thanks to the Fofum and Mike for starting this thread.

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #86 – January 27, 2017, 10:55:24 pm

Quote from: Travelin' Man – January 27, 2017, 02:45:27 pm

GE Iron Grip 100% Silicone Adhesive | Sticks Where Others Won't

Has anyone actually used this stuff on our Foretravels?

The claims and price are very good!

Trent

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #87 – January 27, 2017, 11:18:32 pm

I have qiuestions too...where can I buy it in the caulking gun size and what price?
Jim

2002 U3202 42'

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #88 – January 27, 2017, 11:45:24 pm

Quote from: Jim Frerichs – January 27, 2017, 11:18:32 pm

where can I buy it in the caulking gun size and what price?

Home Depot carries it in the 10.1 ounce standard caulking gun size for $7.97.

GE Silicone Iron Grip 10.1 oz. Clear Silicone Adhesive-HD90058 - The Home Depot

The 7.25 ounce can is $14.32 at Amazon.

Trent

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #89 – January 27, 2017, 11:55:43 pm

Everyone, wanted to ask a question...please just take it with a grain of "he's a novice" and I will ask Scott tomorrow when I see him, but I would like to see what others think as well. This past October had the coach out for the first trip with the wife. Long story short, I hook up the water, turn it on, go in the coach open the valve for the freshwater tank (maybe I should have done that FIRST) anyway come back outside and water is leaking all around the fresh water inlet...I freak out...go inside tilt the coach....try to drain out as much as I can. So....am I in trouble? Also, would it be a good idea... to caulk/silicone around the floor of the wet bay to keep any water on "this side" of the bay fixtures?
Second Question: Since I do not use the black water hose compartment would it be prudent to seal it off?
I'll say it again...this forum is awesome!
Take Care
dave

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #90 – January 28, 2017, 08:21:18 am

I commented on page 2 that I recently used Iron Grip to install basement skin. First impression is very favorable. Time will tell about longevity.

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #91 – January 28, 2017, 06:01:01 pm

Scott,
I have followed this whole thread with considerable interest. Very sorry you got caught up in this.

You are a savvy guy. My question is, in terms of identifying the problem, what does MOT do that the FoFum "Gold Standard" did not uncover or would not have uncovered? Does the MOT "two step inspection process" involve more than a close visual inspection of the coach sub-bay structure and a torquing of the bulkhead fasteners?

I have inspected (PDI'd) numerous coaches for others. I always exercise tough bulkhead scrutiny and scrutiny everywhere possible regarding bay pan attachments/penetrations.
I have also done my own bulkhead corrective action repairs and helped with other's.
The "Gold Standard" for FT Bulkhead inspections and repairs has been on this Forum for more than eight years now, and I have looked closely throughout this thread for anything that indicates a revision needs to be made to the standard. So far, I haven't found anything.

Bulkhead Repair-- A Comprehensive Look

A close inspection of your bulkheads, seems to have indicated that swelling (Rust Jacking, however minor) was evident and warranted further exploration.

Just to be sure that we are on the same page, when one does a PDI of a FT bay skin and the front and rear bulkheads, any waviness, swelling, separation of materials, missing bolt heads, Rolok (or other) bolt heads showing any sort of gap, excess rust, missing caulking, rust stains showing seepage, leaking bay door gaskets, etc. etc., anything out of the ordinary, it's automatic to torque every bulkhead bolt, front and rear, CCW and CW, to 250 in/lbs. I should also add to that list, if the freshwater overflow on the rear bulkhead has not been moved and/or (if they exist) the battery well/propane tank vents through the forward bulkhead outer skin have not been sealed— see below). The general condition of the bays structure, the bulkheads and the number of broken and missing Rolok bolt heads then determines a recommended course of action; i.e. - nothing further necessary, one by one Rolok replacements/and/or sisters or (as I did and documented in 2009), open a path all of the way across the coach from side to side, the full length of the bulkhead, to fully access and correct the condition.

What does MOT do differently and if you followed the PDI "Gold Standard" how come it didn't identify the condition?

You also indicated that you have not moved the fresh water tank overflow tubing to an exit point below the bay outer skin. From my experience, FT coaches that are driven with full or nearly full (anything over 3/4 full) FW tanks (which is most owners and FT's), will keep the rear bulkhead wet for a whole day at a time, as the freshwater sloshes and finds the overflow tank penetration, while going down the road.

I don't care how meticulous you are in trying to seal up that exterior bulkhead joint and the Rolok (or other) bolt heads, normal joint flexing and the aging process guarantees that some of that water will find itself into the bulkhead joint. If continually supplied, it travels along the bolt shanks and through the Rolok threads and into the interior tubing. Chronically overflowing the freshwater tank, when filling it, does the same damage, if you have not been proactive and moved the overflow to "below basement outside skin" level. Storing the coach in damp, humid conditions, over earth, gravel or crushed rock will all but guarantee sweating and water wicking into the joint as well.

It's just common sense that all leaks inside the bays, whether from gaskets, hoses, plumbing, tanks, fittings, pumps, whatever — produce free water on the bay floor. Then the water moves around, looking for any possible way to leak or wick into the trapped space between the skins covering the bay floor framing. A coach is seldom perfectly level, so pooling of the water will likely show on one side of the coach or the other, and when you see it, the time to find the leak source is right then, not later.

You had puzzled about the outer ends of your frame tubing being completely eaten away. Because a coach is seldom sitting perfectly level, small amounts of water that intrude slowly over time, Scott, pool at one end or the other of that transverse frame member. Then the trapped water sits there corroding (along with whatever "North of the Mason Dixon Line Road Chlorides" the water has managed to pick up) and comes up with a corrosive oxidation-reduction stew that eats the ends of your long transverse bulkhead frame member away.

Knowing FT's "tenderness" associated with any water intrusion inside the lower bay frame structure, I am continually amazed that owners are surprised when they discover basement problems. The water intrusion into that belly frame structure (the intrusion that really matters, anyway) does not happen overnight and the "FT tenderness" need not create either fear or distrust of FT.

An Owner/Buyer just needs to be diligent and exercise common sense associated with a known and well documented issue. If an owner does not have the wherewithal to visually inspect, monitor, find and fix these things, I understand why that owner definitely needs to go to MOT, Extreme, Etc.

But I think that the eight year old "Gold Standard" is still fully intact, unless Scott and Mike can show us something more that MOT does that we don't know about yet

At any rate, this is a good thread to remind us all to be diligent and careful.

HTH,
Neal

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #92 – January 28, 2017, 06:30:45 pm

3M VHB tape holds the glass facades of many skyscrapers in place. I've used it for quite a few applications on the Foretravel and find, properly applied, it is permanent. Reattaching the filon to a (hopefully, why wouldn't you) painted steel structure with VHB would be a piece of cake though subsequent removal would be difficult. This would give you a reliable attachment and bypass the need to clamp.

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #93 – January 28, 2017, 06:37:45 pm

Hi Neal,

Off topic, but my coach is 5957 and I wonder if your coach has a full lifting tag. Mine lifts only enough to drag gravel -yet I know a few late produced '02 coaches have a full lifting tag. Just wondering if you are more fortunte than I am.
Jim

2002 U320 42'

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #94 – January 28, 2017, 07:05:30 pm

Hi Jim,
No. No lifting tag here and I didn't want one. I was happy to find a non-lifting tag and I'm still happy.
Lifting tags have more pieces-parts, more things to go wrong, more maintenance, are abusive to tires (when they touch down, those big donuts are not turning -- and it's a big mass to get up to speed -- so don't forget to drop the tag before getting underway) and lifting tags add a lot more structure weight. Of course they turn a little shorter, but not worth the negatives for that one positive (for me).
Neal

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #95 – January 28, 2017, 07:45:53 pm

Hey Neal -

Sorry about the delay in responding to your post.

I will try to address some of the issues/concerns that you shared.

The corrosion that we experienced occurred over many years and could not be caused by a single incident - as Keith R stated, or words to the effect.

The "Gold Standard" as I read and understood them will not always catch the corrosion that Mike and I experienced. All of the Rolok bolt heads were in place and the 1/4" angle iron with the bolt heads in them was not wavy or overly corroded. (Rance at Xtreme did a "courtesy" inspection and commented that I should place some corrosion resistant paint on the angle iron but it was nothing that needed to be done immediately. - I make this comment only to underline how even an experienced eye does not always detect our problem. Furthermore, MOT had recently also inspected this coach and did not raise the red flag.)

.....Quote "Just to be sure that we are on the same page, when one does a PDI of a FT bay skin and the front and rear bulkheads, any waviness, swelling, separation of materials, missing bolt heads, Rolok bolt heads showing any sort of gap, excess rust, missing caulking, rust stains showing seepage, leaking bay door gaskets, etc. etc., anything out of the ordinary, it's automatic to torque every bulkhead bolt, front and rear, CCW and CW, to 250 in/lbs. I should also add to that list, if the freshwater overflow on the rear bulkhead has not been moved and/or (if they exist) the battery well/propane tank vents through the forward bulkhead outer skin have not been sealed-- see below). The general condition of the bays structure, the bulkheads and the number of broken and missing Rolok bolt heads then determines a recommended course of action; i.e. -n nothing further necessary, one by one Rolok replacements/and/or sisters or (as I did and documented in 2009), open a path all of the way across the coach from side to side, the full length of the bulkhead, to fully access and correct the condition." End quote...

This paragraph is inclusive and full of important stuff that can, does and should lead to a more intensive inspection and is important. Only one symptom in that paragraph that was a tell tale in our situation was the minor gap between the pan material and the floor support structure and checking the bolt heads would not have necessarily shown the corrosion we experienced.

I might be wrong but MOT does not like to check the torque of the Rolok bolt heads as they believe that checking the torque to 250in /lbs could lead to bolt failure. If they appear to be seated without separation or corrosion visible they will not torque. Again I am probably wrong with that statement but that is what I understood.

There was an observable gap in the fiberglass pan. and that gap, about .125+/- appeared in the middle of the fiberglass pan next to the angle iron with the bolt heads. No rust seepage was observable and there was no swelling. Caulking/sealant appeared to be intact.

In addressing the overflow tube positioning, Keith R explained that that overflow would not have caused our problem as it was due to interior water causing the corrosion. We will not travel with more than 2/3 tank of fresh water and will not fill tank to a full point. I will revisit the placement of the overflow tube and will probably extend the end below the pan in the next week or two. Keith R did inspect the overflow attached to the tank and did not detect any leakage around that vent tube opening.

As you aptly stated, the water will pool while underway and while parked. Most of our coaches do not level exactly "level" and typically they "cant" a bit rear and to the left. As you could see by my pics that both corners of the tube structure were severely corroded. The driver's side being the worst. This might have also happened as the structure might have been bowed up during fabrication or attachment to the 1/2" angle iron.

The wet bay floor showed no signs of rust stains and all of the caulking/sealants appeared to be intact. There appeared no swelling or waviness in any of those areas.

Not to be redundant.....The only indicator was that the pan next to the angle iron did show a slight wave - about .125" +/-.

I "invented" the term "2 step inspection method" as it was the only way that I could express the process that they are still formulating to describe how they might inspect for this problem. I did not and do not wish to speak for them or the process that they are using to try to detect this problem.

To clarify -
Step 1 - Visually inspect all aspects of the angle iron, bolt heads and associated assemblies surrounding areas looking for visual signs of corrosion or general weakness that might appear. - Including fiberglass bottom pan edge appearance over and around the bottom of the coach. MOT probably includes other things that I did not catch in our conversations.

Step 2 - Cut a portion, about 18" to 24" covering the last segment of the flooring assembly in front of the 1/2" angle iron. Once this pan is removed it will lay bare the assembly for inspection.

In conclusion, I am not the one to suggest or recommend that the "Gold Standard" should be changed/added to or expanded upon to further detail this specific issue. In my limited reading of this Fofum and my newbie status - owner only 4 years - I do not recall seeing or reading about this extensive corrosion. It is possible that the Gold Standard addresses this situation but I would not be the one to make that determination. As I have owned 2 FTs now and have experienced the rebuild in only one, the only way to be 100% sure is to have the pan opened and inspected. I did look at our 2002 after seeing our problem and the pan looked solid as did all of the Rolok bolt heads.

I agree that this problem should not sway a potential buyer away from FTs but it is something that must be considered and dealt with when appropriate. Others that I have talked with feel the only way to be sure there is not corrosion is to take their coach to MOT for the inspection consisting of opening the structure by removing a section of the pan. I presume that others could also perform this inspection but should be prepared to perform surgery when required.

I have attempted to address the issues as I understand them. If I missed something, please redirect.

As for me being Savvy - I think not, but thanks for feeding my ego anyway. I do not wish to become the quoted expert in this issue but am only trying to share what I understand. They don't call me "50% right Scott for nothing".

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #96 – January 28, 2017, 10:36:48 pm

Well, I am sorry too that Scott or anyone got caught up in this thread with more interest than just reading it. Never expected so much interest, for I think this is fairly rare and perhaps easily prevented. My original purpose was to note one repair option, the preventative care imperative, and proper inspection that damage caught early is less expensive.

To reiterate. Our coach was the first in this thread, then three more followed with varying degrees of issues and different evidence. We had no evidence such as wavy bulkhead, loose fiberglass along the bulkhead, missing bolts. I do not torque test the bolts, per Rance at Xtreme.

Our evidence was only caught because Keith Risch, hired to do a thorough full coach inspection, saw sealant missing between the fiberglass and the metal frame right behind the flap door where you let utility cords and hoses out of the bay.

He cut out a piece of the fiberglass under the coach to inspect more closely and found the ends of outside ends of bulkhead tube corroded and holes. The rest of the tubing looked pretty good. The welding shop showed me on another coach where the bolts were secure but corrosion had significantly damaged the tube frame at several places across the bulkhead.

MOT said that after seeing this with ours, they may institute some procedure to check the bulkheads in another way. It was during this that Scott's was noticed, and then the 05 came in with a repair need but different cause. The fourth coach to repair had a small separation along a vertical seam in the bay. I posted a photo of that.

Now....this if caught fairly early is not a huge deal and our coach is 16 years old. 155,000 miles. Preventable with the right knowledge perhaps.

On costs which some ask, the welding shop emphasized that repairs are not identical so costs are variable, unlike a set of tires. And our cost was much less than a set of tires.

Again, I was very thankful to have Scott to visit with after ours was done and he was to began his, for he learned and better understood the repair process as he visited with the shop and technicians. The shop, in my subsequent visit after the repair, showed me more of what was involved and how it was done and examples of the various damages that can infect a coach.

As I said before, all the people involved worked hard to give me a good result. It began with Mr. Risch who identified the problem and continued as he oversaw all aspects of the repair.

I appreciate too the gentleman that explained the repairs that he required. He has helped us all understand, as has Neal,, possible causes, consequences, preventative maintenance an perhaps a few improvements you can make as you go about repairs.

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #97 – January 28, 2017, 11:18:48 pm

Quote from: Carol & Scott – January 28, 2017, 07:45:53 pm

The "Gold Standard" as I read and understood them will not always catch the corrosion that Mike and I experienced. All of the Rolok bolt heads were in place and the 1/4" angle iron with the bolt heads in them was not wavy or overly corroded..............................

Scott,
I know that MOT, FOT and Extreme have many different reasons for not wanting to "torque check" the bulkhead fasteners. When pressed, most of the answers that I have been given involve issues other than determining whether a given bulkhead is sound or not on any given day. The answers always have to do with liabilities, who will pay for the larger repair if any fasteners fail, where and when corrective actions will occur (if warranted), etc. I've even had one of them, as owners, tell me "You can torque the fittings after you own it, but not before." What does that tell you?

The bottom line for me is that MOT, FOT will do the torque check if the coach owner accepts responsibility or if it becomes a "go-no-go" impasse to selling a coach that they own. They never argue whether the "torque check" is a valid measure of structural integrity or not.

So, after Brett Wolfe suggested it as the definitive standard, eight or more years ago (and I had initial misgivings as well), I tried it and I have done it on many coaches, mine and others, ever since. Of course, I've never done it until the coach owner agreed, but it is sort of dramatic how easy it is to prove whether or not there is integrity behind what may appear to be a very subtle surface indication or abnormality.

It's rather like taking a scientific measure, like a blood pressure cuff reading , when there is a very subtle reddening of the face (that raises suspicion) and then rather easily discovering whether or not a life threatening blood pressure condition exists. Why perform invasive surgery before taking a blood pressure cuff reading? Besides, the blood pressure cuff reading can be taken at the nearest CVS/Walgreen or maybe you even have your own. Anyway, much easier answer, very definitive and much easier to accomplish, especially if the invasive surgery facility is a half a nation away. Then the only question is whether the potentially long-standing condition owner wants to know the answer or not.

The 0.125" panel swelling gap that you mentioned,

the unaddressed freshwater tank overflow fitting in the rear bulkhead,

your "bulkhead 3" picture in reply #28 of this thread (which shows the less than straight and true, 1/4"thick, 3" by 3", angle iron bulkhead beam),

the northern states winter driving history of this coach,

These are collectively as well as each and every one a red flag that should cause a definitive torque measurement of the bulkhead fittings in an owner/buyer transaction. I would be willing to guarantee you that many of the Roloks would have failed the "torque check" 250 in-lbs, CCW, CW. And Roloks that backed out would have clearly shown tubing internal oxidation-reduction. Then surgery would be clearly warranted.

Again, very sorry that you got caught by surprise by this, but as I said before, good lesson for everyone to be diligent and careful, both as owners and buyers.

HTH,
Neal

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #98 – January 28, 2017, 11:32:10 pm

Neal, had not thought of liability matter. Good idea. Only thing I can remember about my conversation though with Rance was him telling me not to do it and say on Forum then to warn against such, he had seen too many problems caused by this.

But the way you explain it, if you stay well below the torque limit, why would it not be a good test to see if it were loose and only held in place by rust?

Hmmmm

Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair

Reply #99 – January 28, 2017, 11:47:39 pm

Exactly Mike,
By far, most of the failures that I have found, were already completely severed by corrosion weakening and then the normal bulkhead stresses applied during coach use. There were only corrosion products holding the Rolok heads in place, even though many "looked" tight and flush.

All but one or two failures, if the fastener was compromised, failed well short of full torque. A very few have backed out at very near full torque, but that is OK too, because the condition of the fastener, especially at the junction of the 1/4" thick angle iron, the aluminum sheet insert material and the frame tubing, as well as the end of the fastener inside the tubing, tells you a lot and if you can take a borescope peek, that tells you even more.
Neal

Affiliate Notice