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Topic: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug  (Read 6430 times) previous topic - next topic

Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

It isn't like I have forgotten to be grateful for not having issues with the power steering box... but I guess it is my turn. I last checked the hydraulic reservoir level in Leduc ( about 300 miles ago, near Edmonton) and it was as usual, near the full cold mark. I went to get something out of the front compartment and I noticed a couple of canvas bags were soaked. At first, I thought it was water splashed up as we have driven several days in the rain (It is like the rainiest June ever here, according to some I have talked with). Anyway, I could smell oil and checked the reservoir and found it to be on the low cold mark. The side of the Sheppard box has a film of oil on the lower two thirds. I haven't found the source of the leak. Hoping it isn't a catastrophic rupture of a seal. Mea culpa, I haven't done an adjustment of the stops, though I always try to avoid the extremes and backoff immediately if I sense the stop or hear anything that sounds like a complaint. Still, I wish I had prioritized checking it while on a nice flat concrete pad (I had the chance at Bill C's, but was busy doing other projects). That said, we have been in a few tight spots that required as much cut angle as I could get (without pinning it to the stops, of course). Posting some pictures for your vicarious enjoyment.

If it is possible, I want to try and get the rebuilt at Red Head when passing through Washington, pay a core charge and then send them mine when done. I don't know if that will work, but I can dream! First step is to determine how much it is leaking... Open to ideas as to the best way to go about it. Right now, I will just fill the reservoir and maybe add some seal conditioner (product suggestions welcome!). Anybody know what the low point on the stick amounts to? I am guessing a quart, but I don't know. Knock on wood, the fan motors seem to be okay...
Don
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #1
Don, I've had real good luck with Lucas Hydraulic oil booster and stop leak. 
"Not so  long ago we were a nation of risk takers, riding five million pounds of  thrust straight into space."  Joe Gresh
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295
2018 Can Am X3 TurboRS

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #2
Don, don't blame yourself, stuff happens.  Sounds like you are on the right track.
Jerry Whiteaker former owner 96 U270  36' #4831 Austin,TX-Owner Mods LCD TV w/front cabinet rebuild - LCD TV bedroom - Dual Central AC, either can cool coach w 30 amp - Skylights at roof AC openings - Drop ceiling for ducting of AC - Shower skylight white gelcoat/wood/epoxy frame - Air Springs/Shocks replaced - 2014 CRV - 8K Home Solar - Chevy Volt

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #3
If you have not replaced it since new , you are way overdue by calculations the 2003's should be all springing a leak now with the 2004's coming up soon. In the research I did, it has nothing to do with mileage, only age.

My coach in 350 miles lost around 2 gallons of oil, which ended up on the side of coach along with being on the coach that was behind me.  It was a mess cleaning it up.  I was able to finish our trip only using about another gallon.  I took a empty gallon jug and cut it to fit below the steering gear box to catch the oil that was leaking. 
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #4
Does Redhead rebuild hydraulic fan motors?  Off topic I know, but sort of related.

George
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George Hatfield

  Never ever use World Line Motors of Nacogdoches for service!

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #5
Does Redhead rebuild hydraulic fan motors?  Off topic I know, but sort of related.

George

No.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #6
No comments on the pictures? This is before wiping the oily film off. It is hard to judge how much the canvas bags are holding in suspension, but it took about ¾ of quart to come up to the full cold mark. It is hard to judge, because some road splash got in there while driving. The bottom of the compartment looked like it had a mix of oil and water on it, but I estimate no more than a cup. I need start it to raise it up to put frame blocks in so I can change the secondary fuel filter. I will try to see if I can spot where it is coming from.
Don
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #7
Don,  maybe it's my poor eyesight but in the pictures the steering box looks pretty clean.  I'm guessing that when you checked the fluid level and it read cold, the system was warmed up?  Maybe a fitting?  Your box has probably timed out........... just asking.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #8
I found the source of the leak! Dead center on the street side of the box from what I assume must be a cover over the shaft and seal.
Foretravel Sheppard M100 leak - YouTube
About a drop every three or four seconds at 800 RPM fast idle. This must have just happened, or it would have been a lot worse of a mess over the last 300 miles since I checked the level. I will try a seal conditioner and put a container underneath as we try to finish our Canada trip (another few months!). If possible, I will replace that seal... have to research the part number and source. I probably already have it, but feel free to post it if it is handy for you. I still want to do the rebuild, but it would be nice to choose the place and time!
Don
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #9
You might want to grab one on your way south to save freight one way. Call Dan at Redhead for availability.

Tim Fiedler
Gen-Pro.biz
630 240-9139
Tim Fiedler    2000  Foretravel U-320 4010
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna 185 on Aerocet 3500 straight floats. (1/4 share)
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #10
That's what I am hoping Tim! Thanks to you, it may work out. A lot depends on what I see on the next leg of our trip which will bring us to John Haygarth's place. Then taking the ferry to Vancouver Island for a few weeks. Not a whole lot of driving on the Island, then taking the ferry to Anacordes, WA. The plan was to be crossing the border into Washington at the end of August, but we may have to adapt. If I can change the seal, it should work out. I had no idea the seal was under the cover on the sides. If I am right, it should be doable without taking the box out. Still hoping to hear from someone who has changed that seal...
Don
You might want to grab one on your way south to save freight one way. Call Dan at Redhead for availability.

Tim Fiedler
Gen-Pro.biz
630 240-9139
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #11
 This will sound a little unbelievable but I had the same  exact leak two weeks ago I was able to pull the six bolts out and when I removed the end plate the hydraulic seal had a little plastic ring that holds the seal that was disintegrated  had little pieces of blue material causing the lip seal not to function properly I was able to wipe everything and wash clean and replace the seal and drove another eight days without any leak  the end cap Will have a caged roller bearing inserted in it you don't even have to remove the roller bearing you can just pry out carefully the lip seal  that's my story
John Patrick
2002 U270

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #12
 It's very doable and you don't even need to pull the endcap more than maybe an inch or half inch away leaving the cage  Bearing still engage with the shaft itself  The new seal kit that I ordered shows the replacement seal has two instead of one big seal  and it tells you to gingerly manipulate them back into the groove
John Patrick
2002 U270

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #13
 If you need to know anything more about this particular job call me at 281-744-7699 I'm only going to be in phone range for another two hours
John Patrick
2002 U270

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #14
If you do decide to do the RedHead rebuild they promise a 24 hour turn around of your unit if you deliver it to them. That promise stretched to 48 hours for my rebuild but I had told them I didn't need it that soon. We stayed at a campground in Puyallup. I did the remove & install in the campground. I would arrange to get the pitman puller from whoever has it on the forum before you attempt the job.

Hopefully you just need the seal. That job looks a lot easier!

see ya
ken
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🍺1992 U300 GrandVilla WTBI #4150 FOT FBP 2011
✨6V-92TA DDEC Parlor Coach 350HP Series 92
🏁2011 Nissan XTerra Pro-4X

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #15
Don,
The Part Number for the seal kit is 5545221 from RedHead.  It will be an entire seal kit for about $120.  They don't sell just that seal.  I just replaced the exact seal your talking about last week. 
You remove the 18mm bolts, and then remove the side plate. A dental type pick will help in remove the old seal. You lose about a quart of fluid while doing the job. Overall, not terrible, but I really had to pry to get the side plate loose. I replaced the big O ring while I was in there.
By the way, that side plate cover is magnetic, and it will pull right off, showing the end of the shaft and you can probably see you leaking spot.

Flatfisher53 was instrumental in providing me information on doing the job.

Good Luck, Safe Travels
Mark & Bev
2001 U295 36'
Cummins ISC 8.3 350HP
Build #5802
Jeep Wrangler Toad

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #16
Thanks Mark
I really don't want to spend that much for a seal kit since I want to get a RedHead rebuilt unit and that unit would have all new seals as well as the blueprinting. I went on eBay and found a seller that sells seals (steering_seal_kits is the sellers eBay ID) for all makes (so he says) and he has just the two sector shaft seals for about $10. I am having the shipped to an address in Canada, so we will see how that goes. Shipping to Canada cost twice as much as the seals ::) ! But the seller has free shipping in the US.
Sheppard M100 Sector Shaft Seal ONLY | 2 Pieces | eBay
Whether or not I will end up changing the seal up here depends on how fast it is is going through the oil. I plan to stop frequently and check the container I placed under it.
Don
Don,
The Part Number for the seal kit is 5545221 from RedHead.  It will be an entire seal kit for about $120.  They don't sell just that seal.  I just replaced the exact seal your talking about last week. 
You remove the 18mm bolts, and then remove the side plate. A dental type pick will help in remove the old seal. You lose about a quart of fluid while doing the job. Overall, not terrible, but I really had to pry to get the side plate loose. I replaced the big O ring while I was in there.
By the way, that side plate cover is magnetic, and it will pull right off, showing the end of the shaft and you can probably see you leaking spot.

Flatfisher53 was instrumental in providing me information on doing the job.

Good Luck, Safe Travels
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #17
Don,
Great find !!! Wish I would have spent a little more time searching. Well, I guess at least I have all the seals if I ever need them.  However, my plan is to get the full Redhead unit in the near future just to be safe.
Hopefully, yours will just stay at a small drip and you won't need to change on the road.

Safe travels.
Mark & Bev
2001 U295 36'
Cummins ISC 8.3 350HP
Build #5802
Jeep Wrangler Toad

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #18
Mine started leaking on the easily accessible side so I decided to pull the end cap and take a look. Like John posted earlier, I found pieces of blue stuff had gotten under the seal lip which caused the leak. Further investigation showed the blue bits were from a blue sealant placed on the seal seat during manufacture that had started to deteriorate. I cleaned out the old sealant with a pick and reinstalled the old seal which still looked good and no more leak. This may explain why most failures are due to age not mileage. The other side started to leak about 6 months later so, although more difficult on that side, removed, cleaned and reinstalled which fixed it also. I wonder how many of the steering box failures are due to the same issue.
1999 U270 36, no slide

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #19
Ed,
When you write that you pulled the end cap off, you referring to to the cover held on by 8 bolts rather than the plastic cap with a weep hole from which the leak issues? I want to try to make it about another 300 miles to get to a place I can work on it, but I am tempted to pry off that plastic cover to see what I can see. The worry is that it might come off in pieces and then I will be worse off. On the other hand, if the seal can be accessed from there without pulling the cover, then maybe I can clean up the blue bits (if that is indeed what is causing it). When you did the other side, you must have had to pull the pitman arm off. Were you able to do that without removing the box?
Don
Mine started leaking on the easily accessible side so I decided to pull the end cap and take a look. Like John posted earlier, I found pieces of blue stuff had gotten under the seal lip which caused the leak. Further investigation showed the blue bits were from a blue sealant placed on the seal seat during manufacture that had started to deteriorate. I cleaned out the old sealant with a pick and reinstalled the old seal which still looked good and no more leak. This may explain why most failures are due to age not mileage. The other side started to leak about 6 months later so, although more difficult on that side, removed, cleaned and reinstalled which fixed it also. I wonder how many of the steering box failures are due to the same issue.
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #20
Don't ever try to plug the weep hole on a steering box, it relieves pressure from internal seals that have failed. The steering could lock up if the pressure isn't relieved. Learned this one on one of my cranes.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #21
Plugging it wouldn't occur to me, but it would be interesting to find out what can be seen under the plastic cap. I am hoping to know if that blue stuff can be cleaned from there or if the bolted on cover needs to come off before I experiment. I have the bucket in place and the compartment is packed, so I probably won't try anything until I have the seal in hand... unless it starts puking out. Hopefully, that won't happen! I would like to get back to home base before removing the box and getting a rebuild from Redhead, but if things go south before we do, then I might be able to do the rebuild thing when we get to Washington. I would just have to figure something out for the puller. I might have to end up buying one.
Don
Don't ever try to plug the weep hole on a steering box, it relieves pressure from internal seals that have failed. The steering could lock up if the pressure isn't relieved. Learned this one on one of my cranes.
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #22
I had to remove the bolts from the steel end cap and remove it with a puller centered on the main shaft (it has a name which I have forgotten). The plastic cap is just a dust cover. Mine was just held in place with silicon and came off easily. I did have to remove the Pittman arm from the other side which I accessed by pulling the gen forward and crawling behind it. That worked on my model but not sure if would work on others. Once the Pittman is removed, the shaft can be pulled out from the other side pretty easily and the seal accessed.
1999 U270 36, no slide

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #23
Don, Just noticed I didn't clearly answer your question about the box. If you mean the steering gear box, I worked on it in place. I was by myself and don't think I could have removed it easily because of the weight. Much easier now that I know what to do and am able to wiggle into the tight spot behind the gen. Also, on mine, there is a sufficient size hole in the generator enclosure to access the pittman. Hope you are able to find a good solution.  Ed
1999 U270 36, no slide

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #24
Don,
In your pictures, your box looks identical to mine.  That side cover on mine was magnetic, I just pulled it right off, wiped up the area behind it and it stuck right back on, no prying or silicone needed.

Mark
Mark & Bev
2001 U295 36'
Cummins ISC 8.3 350HP
Build #5802
Jeep Wrangler Toad