Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Topic: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug (Read 8365 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #25 – July 12, 2019, 10:09:26 pm

Update: we traveled 200 miles today from Cranbrook B.C. To Grandforks B.C. and only lost about half a liter, give or take. I stopped three times on the way to check it out, and felt reassured it isn't a gusher (yet). I am convinced that getting the redhead rebuild and setting the plungers will be the final solution. I still may do the seal, even if it hasn't noticeably progressed just to be on the safe side. Attached is a picture of my cereal bin catch can with the day's harvest. It appears that it is all being captured, no signs of a film of oil on the stuff in the compartment.
Don

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #26 – July 13, 2019, 12:15:08 am

Does anyone know about steering gear automatic limit?

I read some Sheppard's have manual left & right settings on the gear box and some Sheppard's do not have the two manual screwdriver settings.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #27 – July 13, 2019, 12:53:45 pm

Barry
That is my understanding also, the mechanic at Tillamook Diesel (Joe) tool one look at my old and Redhead rebuilt gearboxes and told his boss that they were manual adjust because they had the screw adjustments and were not the auto adjust. He spent about 15 to 20 minutes with me at the steering wheel to get them set like he wanted. I believe he made some adjustment to the physical stop bolts also.

Justin

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #28 – July 23, 2019, 02:45:35 am

Update: I ordered and received the sector shaft seals (seals only) at John Haygarth's place and removed the 8 bolts holding the street side cover on(non pitman side). As posted by opelgt327 and Ed Pancake, the remains of what looks like blue Loctite were visible around the seal. John and I picked out all the blue pieces without removing the bearing. I was reluctant to remove the bearing because if it is put in with loctite, I was afraid I would damage it. Since I plan on getting a Redhead rebuild, I don't want to spend anymore than necessary on the old one. It almost seemed that the old seal is undersized on the outer diameter because once the debris was cleaned up, the seal turned easily in the cover by hand. At any rate, I decided to just bolt the cover and see if it was still leaking. I can't say for certain without a real world test drive, but it appears to have stopped the leak completely. The plastic cover on ours was held on by what looked like some clear double stick tape. We glued it back on with a bit of caulking after I ran it to check for leaks. It has definitely improved the situation, but time will tell if it lasts until I get a Redhead rebuilt unit installed. As other have mentioned, getting the cover off was the hardest part. The bearing felt good and spun freely without being loose or binding.
While I was there, I took a shot of the treadle valve. It looks like I can get at most of the air line fittings if needed. I thought I would have a look at the air schematic to see if the numbers match up to what I can see in the photo.
Don

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #29 – July 23, 2019, 08:53:59 am

CAUTION!!! Off topic comment! Do not read without adult supervision!

Very nice photo of the treadle valve, with all the air line ID numbers clearly visible!

The valve appears to be metal on the top section, and a composite on the bottom. Do you have a part number for it?

This is the closest I could find with a quick Google search: https://www.anythingtruck.com/product/070-KN22150.html

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #30 – July 23, 2019, 07:17:54 pm

Don,

I just received a call from Daniel at Redhead telling me my rebuilt box is in the way. He handled my rebuilt with the utmost professionalism. He sent me a prepaid shipping label at his discount to ship my original unit to him. He rebuilt it and shipped it in one buisness day. He kept me informed and he was really great to work with!

Hopefully the rest of your seals hold up until you get home to replace the whole unit.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #31 – July 23, 2019, 09:18:26 pm

Quote from: Eric & Alena + 3 – July 23, 2019, 07:17:54 pm

Don,

I just received a call from Daniel at Redhead telling me my rebuilt box is in the way. He handled my rebuilt with the utmost professionalism. He sent me a prepaid shipping label at his discount to ship my original unit to him. He rebuilt it and shipped it in one buisness day. He kept me informed and he was really great to work with!

Hopefully the rest of your seals hold up until you get home to replace the whole unit.

Did you send your core in for a rebuild?
If not and you are doing an exchange ...........maybe it's our core we sent back to Redhead the last week in June?

If so it was a good tight box only the seal blew out on us.

Hope yours works as good as ours did!

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #32 – July 23, 2019, 11:40:48 pm

Quote from: FourTravelers – July 23, 2019, 09:18:26 pm

Did you send your core in for a rebuild?
If not and you are doing an exchange ...........maybe it's our core we sent back to Redhead the last week in June?

If so it was a good tight box only the seal blew out on us.

Hope yours works as good as ours did!

I sent in my box to be rebuilt. It was a $300 savings versus getting the one he had in stock and sending in mine as a core. I have more time than money!

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #33 – November 07, 2019, 12:36:03 pm

Well, now the other shoe has dropped

The pitman arm side of the Sheppard box has become incontinent... after a grueling 10 mile stretch on a corkscrew road between Auburn and Coloma on the way to the Thousand Trails Ponderosa campground from Redding, CA. I of course have been checking the hydraulic reservoir frequently so I know it happened on this last stretch. Still in the assessment mode right now as we got here well after dark last night. Now I have to come up with a plan. Oh well, there goes the Tahoe trip and a complete reshuffle of plans, reservations, etc.

Just when I was feeling so happy about conquering the dreaded stop engine light after all this time...

For those so inclined to notice such things, my generator compartment needs some TLC.

It is on my list!

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #34 – November 07, 2019, 01:40:33 pm

was worried when you dodged the bullet replacing the "easy" seal that this might happen.

These boxes are 15 - 25 years old, and when one seal fails, likely the others are not far behind. I proactively replaced my M100 so I could do it at my convenience and ad least cost.

Everyone driving on the still original M100 PDP1 (1993 - 2003?

) should consider a proactive replacement at your convenience rather than risk a break down in an inconvenient (and expensive) spot - as recently happened to "that Irish girl" and now Don.

Where are you at now Don?

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #35 – November 07, 2019, 02:18:48 pm

We are at the Ponderosa RV Resort (Thousand Trails) north of Placerville and South of Auburn.
http://maps.apple.com/?address=7291%20CA-49,%20Lotus,%20CA%20%2095651,%20United%20States&ll=38.808932,-120.903634&q=7291%20CA-49&_ext=EiYpTW1f5/dmQ0Ax4umylDM6XsA5y0KFQx5oQ0BBJlxhtHY5XsBQAw%3D%3D&t=m
The logistics are going to be challenging. We had reservations for 2 nights, and so now Tys has managed to get us extended so we can be here in this park for a full three weeks. Now I have to acquire a puller, check availability of the rebuilt unit, etc. I had hoped that we would be back at or near home base where I could more easily arrange the shipping etc.
Oh well, life is what happens while you are making other plans!
Don

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – November 07, 2019, 01:40:33 pm

was worried when you dodged the bullet replacing the "easy" seal that this might happen.

These boxes are 15 - 25 years old, and when one seal fails, likely the others are not far behind. I proactively replaced my M100 so I could do it at my convenience and ad least cost.

Everyone driving on the still original M100 PDP1 (1993 - 2003?) should consider a proactive replacement at your convenience rather than risk a break down in an inconvenient (and expensive) spot - as recently happened to "that Irish girl" and now Don.

Where are you at now Don?

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #36 – November 07, 2019, 02:24:38 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – November 07, 2019, 01:40:33 pm

was worried when you dodged the bullet replacing the "easy" seal that this might happen.

These boxes are 15 - 25 years old, and when one seal fails, likely the others are not far behind. I proactively replaced my M100 so I could do it at my convenience and ad least cost.

Everyone driving on the still original M100 PDP1 (1993 - 2003?) should consider a proactive replacement at your convenience rather than risk a break down in an inconvenient (and expensive) spot - as recently happened to "that Irish girl" and now Don.

I agree with what Tim had said. Question is not if, but when they will let loose. From what I have seen it is not by mileage but by age.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #37 – November 07, 2019, 06:49:27 pm

My assessment of the severity of the leak confirms that I won't be driving the coach very far before putting a Redhead rebuilt M100 in. I put a short video on YouTube showing the leak at idle.
Sheppard M100 Pitman Arm Seal Leak - YouTube
Overall, I calculate that I had lost about 2 Qts. so I am quite sure that the twisty road (the 49) between Auburn and Coloma was the final straw. I found out that I can get stuff shipped to this RV Park, and the park has agreed to work with us to let me work on it. Now to locate one of the pullers... I used some 3M command strips to stick a couple of magnets onto a plastic sheet and directed the flow into a wash pan. It worked surprisingly well... the picture shows what was collected after about 15 minutes of running to move from a water and electric only site to full hook up site.
Don

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #38 – November 07, 2019, 07:48:25 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys – November 07, 2019, 12:36:03 pm

For those so inclined to notice such things, my generator compartment needs some TLC. It is on my list!

"I don't need a hobby, I own an RV."

FWIW as an irrelevant aside, organ builder C.B. Fisk Gloucester, MA. made a product for the industry called slider seal. It solved a problem. It was popular. And the foam rubber it was made for had a pretty specific fail by date. Years later, they all failed about the same time.

Be thankful the Sheppard boxes are failing by the age of the seals and not by internal wear. Internal wear, the usual cause for seal failure.

Art

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #39 – November 07, 2019, 08:29:43 pm

Don,
While servicing the coach before our trip to the Pacific Northwest last June, I examined the Sheppard box and it showed no signs of leaking. Thought about getting it replaced before the trip but just couldn't bring myself to changing something that wasn't broken when other things needed my attention. Turns out that was a big mistake, others on here had warned about the Sheppard once it reached the 20 year mark and we were at 24 years. I decided to wait until it showed some "signs" of failing. Well it made it from Florida to Tillamook Oregon, gave up the ghost all at once. Luckily we were 10 miles or so from our RV park where we had reservations and Tillamook had a diesel shop. We got lucky as it only cost us two days of our vacation and we rented a car and made the most of it.

Sorry it happened to you and we wish you luck in getting a quick repair done. All part of the RV life....................

Justin

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #40 – November 08, 2019, 08:20:04 am

Where can you get a Sheppard box, and what do they cost?
Chris
I have seen it listed in the past but can't seem to fins post.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #41 – November 08, 2019, 08:26:18 am

RedHead Steering Gears - Manual & Power Steering Gear Box

They rebuild-- actually blueprint to tighter than factory specs.

Somewhere there is a spare steering box that you may be able to locate from our last member to have it, or it may be at Red Head so they may have one in stock.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #42 – November 08, 2019, 08:35:48 am

Thought Mr. Tim had Redhead set up an exchange program a few months back.Since your paying for round trip shipping anyway
wonder if it's any better to have them rebuild your box,will take longer is the only drawback.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #43 – November 08, 2019, 09:23:23 am

Quote from: John44 – November 08, 2019, 08:35:48 am

Thought Mr. Tim had Redhead set up an exchange program a few months back.

Shepard M100 PDP1 rebuilds now available from Redhead for EXCHANGE!

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #44 – November 08, 2019, 01:07:38 pm

I emailed the primary contact person for the Redhead M100 forum program inquiring about availability and pricing, which I had understood to be $495 for the rebuilt unit on the shelf, plus core ($500), plus shipping (approx. $100 each way). I got back an auto reply saying he was on vacation until Monday, Nov. 11th. A few minutes later I got also got a response from Brad in sales.

Quote

Hello Don,
Daniel is out of the office until Monday, but I can give you some details on this. We have that gear on the shelf, but to buy it off the shelf costs $796 + $500 core + shipping. If you would like us to rebuild yours the cost would be $496 + parts + shipping. Now to be fair Daniel might be doing different pricing for your forum group but I am not sure and we would have to wait until Monday to find out for sure.
Thanks,
Brad Barr - Sales
Red-Head Steering Gears
206.364.3333 ext 102

So I responded with this;

Quote

Thanks for the reply Brad, I will call on Monday. If I understand correctly, leaving the core charge out of it, your charge just for the labor to rebuild mine is $496 and then plus a master seal kit (available online for ~$100 or so), plus shipping at around $100 which would be a total of around $800 Vs. $796 plus shipping (two ways) for the on the shelf unit from the two cores originally provided by Tim Fiedler. That would indicate sort of a convenience charge of $~~200~~ $300 for use of the existing core, is that correct? If so I need to post this information on our forum so that there is no confusion on this issue. Obviously our forum which has an active membership of most current owners of Foretravel coaches has a vested interest in this program of yours and I want to put out the most current information for this critical component.
Don Fera

To which he responded with the following (my emphasis in bold);

Quote

I agree, having the most current and accurate information is the best, so go ahead and call in on Monday and talk to Daniel and see if for some reason we waive the convenience fee for your group. IF we do, he has not told me about it.
Thanks,
Brad Barr - Sales
Red-Head Steering Gears
206.364.3333 ext 102

I won't know what the bottom line is until Monday, but if what Brad says is true, it is pretty disappointing to have to pay a convenience fee to use the cores originally supplied by our own Tim Fiedler! Since I am probably going to have to buy the puller at about $250, this is getting pricey!
Don

EDIT: I edited my quoted email from myself to Redhead to fix my math error for the benefit of forum members to reflect the true costs of this repair. $795 & $500 core charge for the off the shelf unit vs. $495 plus $500 core charge as expected (they really, really want the core!) is effectively a $300 convenience fee, or $496 to rebuild mine (though Brad states that price does NPT include any necessary parts). Shipping is wash, so I don't include that though I have to budget about $200 for the two way shipping.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #45 – November 08, 2019, 02:08:24 pm

Several years back when I did mine it cost me about $100 to ship the box to RedHead. There was a 24hr turnaround, the return shipping was about $40 because RedHead has a commercial UPS account. The box rebuild was less than $500.
You might ask RedHead to ship you a UPS label at there UPS shipping charge. You could also try USPS to ship it.

I have the puller and socket ready to go if you need it.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #46 – November 08, 2019, 02:10:42 pm

Thanks Lon!

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – November 08, 2019, 02:08:24 pm

Several years back when I did mine it cost me about $100 to ship the box to RedHead. There was a 24hr turnaround, the return shipping was about $40 because RedHead has a commercial UPS account. The box rebuild was less than $500.
You might ask RedHead to ship you a UPS label at there UPS shipping charge. You could also try USPS to ship it.

I have the puller and socket ready to go if you need it.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #47 – November 08, 2019, 02:33:29 pm

Lon,
It could easily turn out that may be the best bet, but I will have to wait until Monday to find out. On the plus side, Chris, my RV neighbor in this park, has offered to give me a hand with the R&R of the unit. I told him that it was heavy (100lbs.?) and said he could do it in his sleep. Looking at him, I have no reason to doubt it... Worse comes to worse, I have the two sector shaft seals with me and I could probably do something about the pitman-side seal with the box in place and the bottom cover removed with the gen pulled out. Whatever I do still depends on pulling the pitman arm, so while I think it is possible that I might be able to figure a way to get it off without that slick puller, I sure don't fancy the idea of trying!
Don

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – November 08, 2019, 02:08:24 pm

Several years back when I did mine it cost me about $100 to ship the box to RedHead. There was a 24hr turnaround, the return shipping was about $40 because RedHead has a commercial UPS account. The box rebuild was less than $500.
You might ask RedHead to ship you a UPS label at there UPS shipping charge. You could also try USPS to ship it.

I have the puller and socket ready to go if you need it.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #48 – November 08, 2019, 02:41:20 pm

Don, I don't have my Red Head receipt in front of me at the moment but I will check on it later today. As I remember I bought a core from Dave Head for $100.00, called Red Head and asked them to issue a UPS call tag, which they did to get the box out to Washington. The charge was $496.00 plus $80.00 UPS both ways. After I swapped out the steering boxes I sold my original to Richard Bark for $100.00 and I believe he then duplicated my transaction.

I think the box weighs 160 - 180 lbs.

Re: Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug

Reply #49 – November 08, 2019, 05:44:05 pm

Don, that's exactly what I did also. Then it went to David Damer, then I lost track of it until Tim F got it.

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