Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Topic: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade (Read 3898 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #75 – January 25, 2020, 12:51:50 pm

As an observation the Foretravel prevost conversion uses manual switches to switch the power in that coach.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #76 – January 25, 2020, 12:53:19 pm

I have nothing against manual transfer switches-- that is the common type on boats.

Just have never seen one as OE on a Foretravel (or any other motorhomes where I looked).

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #77 – January 25, 2020, 12:57:23 pm

Beavers had a large manual switch in the upper drivers side bedroom upper cabinet starting in 1989. Gen/off/shore.

They also had a marine circuit breaker panel in that same area versus replaceable fuzes in the foot of the bed.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #78 – January 25, 2020, 01:26:43 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 25, 2020, 12:17:55 pm

Manual transfer switch?? Are you sure it isn't the standard ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch)?

And, yes, you will wire the new inverter exactly the same way. If one hot from inverter wire it to both "IN's" on the transfer switch.

If two hots, wire each to a different "IN".

There is an ATS that switches between shore and generator power but there is also a manual transfer switch that is part of the factory inverter system. The factory installed inverter is setup to power circuits A and B which are a specific set of receptacles for each.

I won't be using that setup with the new inverter system and am not sure how the AC line side of the new inverter will be wired in. In the manual for the xantrex it mentions a source panel and a load panel for the AC system but all we have is a single panel in the coach.

I don't plan on trying to power all the breakers/circuits in the panel with the inverter so I'm not sure on how it's supposed to be setup. In some posts about the xantrex inverter several people have mentioned using 10/3 romex to power the panel (I guess) just not sure.

If I just run romex from the AC output on the inverter to the breakers I want powered then there's nothing to prevent back feeding from shore power to the inverter. That is if I just tap into the existing circuit as is.

Like I said, it's quite possible that I'm misunderstanding how it's supposed to work. It would help if we had the inverter here for me to look at.

I'm sure that this is basically a display of my own ignorance so please forgive me. I'm trying to work this out in my head and this is part of the process.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #79 – January 25, 2020, 02:26:10 pm

Most everything you need to know is in the following pdf from Xantrex.

When I updated my inverter it was very simple following Xantrex instructions. Be sure to follow all their safety precautions. I just replaced the in and out AC to the new inverter as the old one was wired. I used the previous DC connection to the batteries. As has been posted the charger connects thru the same DC connection.

Send me a personal message thru the forum and I'd be happy to discuss this with you if that might help.

Please take and post a picture of your existing AC panel with a picture of the list of breakers and what they go to. A picture of your manual disconnect would be useful also.

Since the inverter/charger needs to be on a breaker, there should be a previous breaker marked as such. A 30 amp breaker will require 10awg wire.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #80 – January 25, 2020, 02:30:11 pm

AM Solar has a DIY page with a variety of tech manuals and diagrams. Some of them may be applicable to your planned setup.

Solar Panel DIY Installation Help & RV Solar Power Setup | AM Solar

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #81 – January 25, 2020, 02:35:11 pm

Another good source

Brian Boone -got solar

He installs all over the country, at your camper !

He will dyi, if you purchase from him...

FYI, No long expensive drive to a location

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #82 – January 25, 2020, 02:50:21 pm

Hannah & Tyler's '93 U280 should have OEM 110V distribution setup shown below (taken from the Forum Media Library:

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=194

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #83 – January 25, 2020, 02:54:11 pm

This is the schematic for the manual transfer switch

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #84 – January 25, 2020, 09:58:53 pm

Since you now have Chuck's reply #82 with your schematic, your addition of a new converter/charger is made easier. I email who your going to buy the XC2000 from, mail them this schematic and ask for recommendations.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #85 – January 25, 2020, 10:00:48 pm

Now what you have, thanks to Chuck, is clear, assuming you have the 50 amp breaker shown in your schematic. The only thing unclear to me is whether you have other beakers and their labels after the 50 amp breaker. If you do pictures of both the breakers and labels will help clear this up.

Since you now have Chuck's reply #82 with your schematic, your addition of a new converter/charger is made easier. I would contact first by phone, then email who you can get help from and your considering buying the XC2000 from, mail them this schematic and the wiring diagram of the RP2L (shows in schematic) you photographed, and ask for recommendations.

The help you get before you buy will most likely be similar to the help you get after you buy. This has tremendous value after you buy. This is why, when ever I can, I purchase equipment from AM Solar for solar and Victron and Don Rowe for Xantrex. Others on this forum have had good service on Victron products from Bay Marine in San Diego and AM Solar.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #86 – January 25, 2020, 11:23:37 pm

Chuck's schematic was just what I needed to help get a visual. We have both DC schematics but not the AC one so a big thanks to chuck for that!

After writing it out and then thinking on it a bit it started to make more since. I was forgetting that the xantrex was also a charger and that it needs the AC for that purpose. Sometimes, for me at least, it really helps to talk my thoughts out or in this case write them out. This coach is basically a solo project when it comes to the technical side.

I would post pictures of our breaker box but our upload speeds won't allow it. I could only post the last pic after driving into town ha. The box consists of one 50 amp main breaker and several 20 amp sub breakers. There is no breaker for the inverter though.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #87 – January 25, 2020, 11:46:23 pm

My plan is to install the xantrex in the compartment under the bed with all the other electrical components. There is plenty of space to mount it vertically and doing so would shorten the cable runs to the battery and the breaker box and would free up a lot of valuable space in our basement. Our air conditioner is in the basement and the current inverter is stuffed next to it completely blocking access to our 12v air compressor.

My only concern is running the AC and DC cables next to one another.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #88 – January 25, 2020, 11:58:25 pm

The compartment under the bed might not have enough circulation to keep the Xantrex cool. They have an internal fan and need air.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #89 – January 26, 2020, 09:20:11 am

Quote from: craneman – January 25, 2020, 11:58:25 pm

The compartment under the bed might not have enough circulation to keep the Xantrex cool. They have an internal fan and need air.

Agree 100%. Would need an inlet low and exhaust fan (Muffin fan) up high on that compartment. And the built in fan in the inverter could make more noise than desirable in the bedroom.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #90 – January 26, 2020, 09:59:16 am

Quote from: The Soft Boulders – January 25, 2020, 11:46:23 pm

My only concern is running the AC and DC cables next to one another.

Not a problem unless you're running signals on those DC cables.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #91 – January 26, 2020, 10:01:11 am

Tyler,

I know your basement storage compartments are probably arranged differently due to your 1-of-a-kind basement A/C setup.

(For benefit of our newer Forum members, the story of a UNIQUE coach: RVAC Central Air Conditioner)

A couple of us on the Forum have mounted our (Magnum) inverters on a vertical storage bay wall. Just one possible idea...

Inverter Replacement

Inverter Replacement

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #92 – January 26, 2020, 11:57:13 am

Quote from: craneman – January 25, 2020, 11:58:25 pm

The compartment under the bed might not have enough circulation to keep the Xantrex cool. They have an internal fan and need air.

Nothing a hole saw won't fix! Haha.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #93 – January 26, 2020, 11:58:41 am

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – January 26, 2020, 09:59:16 am

Not a problem unless you're running signals on those DC cables.

Ok that's good to know. I was worried about induction noise from the 120v ac wires.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #94 – January 26, 2020, 12:08:04 pm

One thing I still haven't figured out is the AC output of the inverter to the breaker box. The xantrex manual states to not connect the output to any AC source. That's really throwing me off.

1. If the output is connected to a breaker in the box when we're connected to shore or generator power then ther is going to be AC source power on that breaker. Unless I flip that breaker off before we turn on the generator or hook to a pedestal the ac power will back feed into the inverter. Is that correct or am I missing something?

2. If we're only wanting to only power a couple circuits instead of all of them, how am i supposed to wire it up? If there is 120v from the inverter to a breaker in the panel wouldn't it essentially power all of the breakers on the bus bar?

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #95 – January 26, 2020, 12:11:53 pm

This is why I'm getting confused.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #96 – January 26, 2020, 12:30:45 pm

Best wiring is for the inverter and either an internal ATS or an external 2nd ATS to feed a SUB-PANEL.

No possibility of back feeding.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #97 – January 26, 2020, 01:40:23 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 26, 2020, 12:30:45 pm

Best wiring is for the inverter and either an internal ATS or an external 2nd ATS to feed a SUB-PANEL.

I am not a electrician, nor do I play one on TV. But I do have a basic understanding of how our coach is wired.

AM Solar wired our Magnum inverter exactly as recommended by Brett. Some photos below. I replaced our main OEM shore power/generator ATS with a high quality manual switch (following a suggestion from the very same Brett). So on our coach, AC power comes through the manual switch directly into the original AC breaker panel. It leaves the main panel and enters the inverter, where it is routed as required by the internal ATS. It then leaves the inverter and goes to the inverter sub-panel. Circuits on the main panel are powered either by shore power or generator, depending on manual switch selection. Circuits on the inverter sub-panel are powered either by the inverter (whenever shore power or generator power is NOT present) or by the pass-through function of the internal ATS (when shore power or generator power IS present). It all works great!

1. First 3 photos are the OEM (main) breaker panel, with notes showing circuit changes made by AM Solar techs.

2. Next 3 photos are the inverter sub panel, mounted under the bed platform.

3. Next 2 photos the back and front of our manual transfer switch.

AC Rotary Switch - OFF + 2 Positions 240V AC 65A - Blue Sea Systems

4. Lastly, photo of the installation diagram page from MS2812 manual, with circuit notes made by the techs.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #98 – January 26, 2020, 01:48:32 pm

Note to above info: I had AM Solar wire our front air conditioner through the inverter sub panel. This was just a "science experiment" to see if I could eventually run one A/C unit on the inverter. I have still not concluded the experiment - waiting for warmer weather to install a "soft start" module on our front A/C, and to install a new more beefy Delco alternator.

Air conditioners would not normally be connected to the inverter sub panel.

Re: Preventative maintenance and possible battery upgrade

Reply #99 – January 26, 2020, 04:52:44 pm

Alright, things are making sense now!

I've been struggling with how this was all supposed to work off of one panel. Having the pictures of the sub panel it finally clicked for me! Now I just hope that FOT left enough slack in the romex for the circuits we want to move to the sub panel. From some of our other projects we've done they don't like to leave much wiggle room in the wiring haha.

That manual transfer switch looks like a nice option, but after all we'll have invested idk if we can swing another $300.

I really appreciate everyone's assistance and their patience with us. This forum and its members are an invaluable asset!

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