Hydraulic pump Failed **ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ**

Topic: Hydraulic pump Failed **ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ** (Read 17028 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #225 – December 18, 2023, 02:37:54 pm

Once parts or Prices are available plz post them.. Id like to get a spare at some point and preferably before it goes out.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #226 – December 19, 2023, 11:14:28 am

Quote from: NevadaBornRvR – December 18, 2023, 02:37:54 pm

Once parts or Prices are available plz post them.. Id like to get a spare at some point and preferably before it goes out.

1st, if you feel you are affected I would suggest, and in your best interest, that you contact Simone at QCC to make your intentions known. She has already received many contacts from here as well as other makes. Nobody is being asked to commit or sign anything obligating you to purchase, but the contacts received might push them in 1 direction or another. IF they decide to only have a limited production run of full pumps, And your not on a list, your probably not going to be able to get one. Many of us here at FT have given serious commitments to purchase complete spare pumps, and will be contacted when they are available. As I am the primary contact, Simone is keeping in touch with me on any updates, and will also let me know how it will all play out.

Update on physical pumps. The rear housings ( that affect all 10 discontinued pumps) are on order and will next go to another shop that does some machine work on them. They hope to have them at QCC late year or early 24. As for the unique shafts that are ONLY for the 41188, they are still waiting to get quotes back and proceed from there on those. She stated they hope to have complete units available by March.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #227 – December 19, 2023, 11:40:58 am

Its my understanding that this problem has been shared with multiple websites? To further the supply issue this affects multiple Brands of Motorhomes?

So with that said I highly doubt this will be a limited run. Its not like its 5 people asking for a part So Me thinks this will be a continued service for them as I am sure everyone that owns a model that is and will be affected is Informed they might need one and will need one.. Just an observation.. So to say its a limited run? I think more are affected that one might think.. This was a product used in hundreds of coaches.

Could be wrong ... and Ill send an email just in case but I believe this will be a supply that is needed for many years.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #228 – December 19, 2023, 12:00:46 pm

Got this back from Simone a couple days ago:

Hello Scott

We are currently sourcing the parts needed for these pumps
I will keep your email in my Foretravel folder and advise once I have additional information

Thank you for reaching out

Best Regards,
Simone Morris | Senior Product Sales Engineer
+1-708-887-6282| simone@qccorp.com

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #229 – December 19, 2023, 10:19:15 pm

Quote from: NevadaBornRvR – December 19, 2023, 11:40:58 am

Its my understanding that this problem has been shared with multiple websites? To further the supply issue this affects multiple Brands of Motorhomes?

So with that said I highly doubt this will be a limited run. Its not like its 5 people asking for a part So Me thinks this will be a continued service for them as I am sure everyone that owns a model that is and will be affected is Informed they might need one and will need one.. Just an observation.. So to say its a limited run? I think more are affected that one might think.. This was a product used in hundreds of coaches.

Could be wrong ... and Ill send an email just in case but I believe this will be a supply that is needed for many years.

Hopefully you have read this entire thread.

I personally only also posted it on IRV2....where the bulk of the replies there were from much wiser than me engineering wizards that really only wanted to talk about a different way.....yet they did nothing to offer to help but talk. BUT, Simone did share with me that a few others outside of FT did respond to the issue as they also had some of the 10.

These 10 pumps were manufactured for the RV/MH diesel pusher industry..., ONLY the 1 has a unique shaft, the 41188....the decision to source and purchase more of the rear housings that the rest also use was an easy business decision. The 41188 is a unique one that also requires special made shafts.
I have already done way more than the average person would have done to benefit the masses, but I cannot guarantee how this will play out, only share what my Factory contact shares with me.

Do or don't do what you feel is in YOUR best interest.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #230 – December 27, 2023, 03:07:56 pm

Spoke to Simone today and the product manager (Bhavin) last week. They have secured the necessary suppliers to move forward, including the 41188 tapered shaft.
My 'screaming" pump issue with low head pressure is the result of a damaged pressure relief valve, causing the pressure loss manifesting itself as hydro harmonic reverberations, and creating cavitation.
I could feel the harmonics in the steering wheel.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #231 – December 27, 2023, 04:30:46 pm

Domo,do you have a picture of the valve and or a part number and where is it located,many of us are curious.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #232 – December 28, 2023, 03:01:20 pm

Quote from: John44 – December 27, 2023, 04:30:46 pm

Domo,do you have a picture of the valve and or a part number and where is it located,many of us are curious.

I'll get that posted with pics this evening when I get home.
For reference, it's the bolt next to the power steering outlet connection on the rear cover of the pump.
The priority flow valve is the wire tethered larger bolt between the power steering outlet connection and the fan outlet connection.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #233 – December 29, 2023, 01:23:47 am

Hmmmm...trying to comprehend how the pressure relief valve got DAMAGED.....as I had that pump completely torn down to the last part recently, PRV in hand and apart, its nothing but a brass shuttle in a tube with a very heavy spring. Priority flow divider, also not much to it.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #234 – December 29, 2023, 04:22:50 pm

Quote from: mkc1962 – December 29, 2023, 01:23:47 am

Hmmmm...trying to comprehend how the pressure relief valve got DAMAGED.....as I had that pump completely torn down to the last part recently, PRV in hand and apart, its nothing but a brass shuttle in a tube with a very heavy spring. Priority flow divider, also not much to it.

Priority valve spring was broken. Rex, a hydraulic engineer from Hydraquip, Houston (the manufacturer of my '08 Nimbus complete cooling system kit) came by and identified the location using a thermal camera while engine was running, then pulled the pressure relief valve, discovering the broken spring.
Says it's a common enough situation. Chalks it up to cheaply made components.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #235 – December 29, 2023, 10:58:32 pm

I can see how it would not do right if the spring were broken, but to me as stiff as that spring was, would think it be pretty hard to break. Good you found it.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #236 – January 02, 2024, 05:02:27 pm

Received an email from Bhavin Brahmbhatt (QCC Product Sales Engineering MANAGER) stating the
41188 will be available soon, and is working up a quote for me shortly.
BTW, the part numbers for the 41188 valves are
Relief valve 20279-004 $180.10 net each, lead time 1-2 weeks
Flow Divider 20276-008 $267 net each, lead time 1 week

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #237 – January 02, 2024, 10:17:27 pm

Quote from: domotang – January 02, 2024, 05:02:27 pm

Received an email from Bhavin Brahmbhatt (QCC Product Sales Engineering MANAGER) stating the
41188 will be available soon, and is working up a quote for me shortly.
BTW, the part numbers for the 41188 valves are
Relief valve 20279-004 $180.10 net each, lead time 1-2 weeks
Flow Divider 20276-008 $267 net each, lead time 1 week

Thanks for the update, I have not spoken to Simone @ QCC since early December. She was receiving so many contacts I figured constant checking from me was not needed. She was supposed to contact me when they were ready for sale.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #238 – January 03, 2024, 10:44:21 am

My feedback as of this morning.

"Hi Mike

We are close to a price

We are still several months out for the actual pumps

I am in the office today and hope to review with my manager"

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #239 – January 03, 2024, 05:58:00 pm

Bhavin from QCC just sent an email stating the following:
"The price for 41188 is $1275.50 net each, lead time 4 months"

I'll be making my purchase tomorrow. I'm creating a backup of all unicorn pieces on my coach!

And good work mkc1962 for initiating

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #240 – January 03, 2024, 06:14:58 pm

Can we buy direct from QCC and who do we contact and information
Thanks to Mike for all the hard work and staying on this project even after he had his back up that what makes this Form and for all the members coming together

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #241 – January 03, 2024, 09:46:07 pm

Quote from: Cape Bretoner – January 03, 2024, 06:14:58 pm

Can we buy direct from QCC and who do we contact and information
Thanks to Mike for all the hard work and staying on this project even after he had his back up that what makes this Form and for all the members coming together

QCC will sell direct to the consumer. Considering all I have discovered in my research, $1450 is a very fair price for a complete pump. Just about any similar HYdraulic pump out there is in that range. I am guessing DOMOTANG getting in touch with Bhavin is ahead of the curve. Simone was going to get with all that contacted her, when they were ready to be sold.

DOMO, let us know how the purchase process proceeds for you.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #242 – January 04, 2024, 05:56:35 am

All of this talk about failed hydraulic pumps has caused mine to start "weeping" at the shaft seal.

So I decided to pull it yesterday.

It's a model W9A2-1800118 built by John S. Barnes Corp.

Plans are to just replace the seal.

I have attached a couple of photos.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #243 – January 04, 2024, 10:18:58 am

For those members who decide to remove and replace their own hydraulic pump at home (rather than have it done by a "pro" shop), I found a good tip online to help with pulley removal.

The first photo in Justin's post (above) shows the process of removing the pulley. This is exactly the same type pulley that I found on my coach. The way you are supposed to remove the pulley is first you remove the 4 bolts from the pulley hub. Then you take 2 of the bolts and screw them into the two "extra" (threaded) holes in the hub. The bolts are supposed to thread into the holes until they bottom out, at which time additional torque evenly applied to the bolts will relieve the clamping force on the split hub and allow it to slip off the shaft. As shown in the photo a little "help" with a large screwdriver might be required to loosen the hub. Link below to my pump rebuild thread that contains some photos of my disassembled pump pulley.

Vickers V10 Hydraulic Pump Rebuild

The problem with this removal method will arise if the threaded holes on the hub are very dirty and full of crap. When you try to screw the bolts into the holes, you will encounter a lot of resistance from the dirty threads. In really bad cases, the bolts may bind up and never get in far enough to bottom out, and the split hub will not separate for removal.

The answer in this case is to use a thread cleaning tap or a thread chaser to clean out the threaded holes before you try to insert the bolts. I happened to have a nice set of Craftsman thread cleaning taps that I inherited from my father, and it contained the proper size tap to use on my pump pulley. Don't ask me what thread size it was - that was 9 years ago and I don't remember. If you decide to use this tip, you will need to remove one of the pulley mounting bolts and check the thread with a gauge to determine the correct size. Lowes, Home Depot and Ace Hardware usually have a handy thread gauge in the "nuts & bolts" department.

Thread cleaning taps look much like regular thread cutting taps, but with subtle differences. First, they don't remove any metal - they just straighten the threads and remove dirt and trash. Second, they usually have squared off tips so they can clean all the way to the bottom of the threaded hole. See first photo below.

Thread chasers are a bit different shape, but they accomplish the same purpose. See second photo below.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #244 – January 04, 2024, 11:04:05 am

To add one thing to above,DO NOT USE IMPACT DRIVER.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #245 – January 04, 2024, 11:11:33 am

"The problem with this removal method will arise if the threaded holes on the hub are very dirty and full of crap. When you try to screw the bolts into the holes, you will encounter a lot of resistance from the dirty threads. In really bad cases, the bolts may bind up and never get in far enough to bottom out, and the split hub will not separate for removal."
]

I should have mentioned this Chuck......... I had to use a 1/4-20 bottom tap to clean out the threads as they were blocked with dirt/rust and tightened up before making contact with the back part of the split hub. I applied a little PB Blaster to the threaded holes before running the tap in. Easily removed the hub after that.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #246 – January 04, 2024, 02:18:35 pm

The tapered shaft pumps require a puller to remove the collar from the shaft. Different design than a straight shaft pump.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #247 – January 04, 2024, 03:04:34 pm

I was just told by Simone that the quoted $1275.50 price was incorrect. She apologized for the confusion..
The price is $1450, with a 40% deposit upon ordering.
Ordering begins tomorrow (1/5/23)

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #248 – January 04, 2024, 10:51:20 pm

Here was my reply from Simone today......same that DOMOTANG found out. My November research found that resellers/distributors were selling these for between $2250 and $2400 prior to discontinuation.

Hi Mike

We are offering the pumps to those that have contacted me for a price of $1450.00

We are asking that you put down a 40% deposit and the balance before we ship

We generally require prepayment but due to the longer lead time and everyone's support and patience we are making an exception.

If you speak to people directly please ask them to email me there contact information I will get them set up in the system and then call them for their credit card information. I imagine there will be several and that will make it easier for me 😊

I can take it on the phone if necessary of course.

I appreciate all you have done to make this happen.

I will be sending an email tomorrow to the list of contacts I have unless I hear from them first.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #249 – January 07, 2024, 01:27:11 am

I ponder, what if? Hmm.

I'll order one too, once I get my busy self under the coach and make sure my pump is also the one...
I have a 2003 Cummins ISL 400, so probably it is.
Once the new pump arrives, if I don't use it and three years later, to my luck, it'd be the one that was not manufactured right, by then it is out of warranty, etc.
So, I am thinking when I get it, I'll install it, and the original one will become a spare. With that, I should also buy the parts to rebuild it, so I will have a rebuild original pump as a spare, right?

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