Hydraulic pump Failed **ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ**

Topic: Hydraulic pump Failed **ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ** (Read 17028 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #250 – January 07, 2024, 09:22:27 am

Quote from: propman – January 07, 2024, 01:27:11 am

I ponder, what if? Hmm.

I'll order one too, once I get my busy self under the coach and make sure my pump is also the one...
I have a 2003 Cummins ISL 400, so probably it is.
Once the new pump arrives, if I don't use it and three years later, to my luck, it'd be the one that was not manufactured right, by then it is out of warranty, etc.
So, I am thinking when I get it, I'll install it, and the original one will become a spare. With that, I should also buy the parts to rebuild it, so I will have a rebuild original pump as a spare, right?

FYI....all pumps that QCC sells are test run 100 hrs as part of a break-in process, then inspected prior to sale. (So I was told when I asked a question a few months back)

My plan is to install the new one, and keep the old as a spare. But my old was just rebuilt so no concern about it at all other, than just want to make sure the new one is spot on, that and I want the new one I purchased running. I would as a minimum buy a seal kit for the old, not much else to do to it if it was still functioning properly.....Draining the fluid from the reservoir is the worst part of changing out a pump, if you have all the proper tools.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #251 – January 07, 2024, 07:09:01 pm

I've been thinking about this and weighing whether of not lay out $1500 to purchase the spare. It is a lot of money for a part we may or may not ever need, particularly since we typically put < 6000 miles a year on the coach, and this isn't a common failure given QCC stopped manufacturing them for lack of demand. However Mike's experience and hard work on this leaves me a little spooked.

Mike, do you know if this is going to be a limited run for QCC, and once they fulfill this set of orders and maybe stock a limited supply, will cease making them again?

The other thing that came to mind is whether there would be interest in an "insurance pool" of these things. If 50 of us chipped in $175 each for 10 of them, that would allow for a failure on 20% of our coaches before exhausting the spares. I'd be wiling to take that risk of exhausting the supply over the remaining time owning the coach.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #252 – January 07, 2024, 08:48:16 pm

I sent an email saying I would buy a pump and I will not go back on my word they are making them because we emailed QCC and said we would purchase them not just a certain amount I don't know how many emails they received they maybe running a 100 pumps I don't know the magic number to start reproducing these pumps I also sent a second email on Friday asking how I had to send my deposit the 40% and also asked about buying a seal kit and a shaft as a back up for either pump. I shall take the new pump and place it in a pail of oil to keep it in good shape it is a gear pump between the new and the old if something were to go wrong I should be able to make one pump i'll see how much room it takes up in the cargo area to see if I will carry it around with me its is more than $1450.00 for me because that is US currency I'm in Canada plus shipping you add another 40% with custom charges and brokerage fees I chalk it up as insurance so that I can continue to enjoy my coach . I have contacted and spoke to a hydraulic shop and they said seals aren't a problem they sell QCC PUMPS but if I had a seal kit they would use it re-Bushing it reseal it and run a test volume and pressure. I may go that route. But I feel I have to buy it. I told QCC I would.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #253 – January 08, 2024, 12:05:39 am

Joe,

They quit offering them not because the lack of sale of any one pump, namely the 41188 that most of us have, but rather due to the fact that the shared 10 units, ALL USING THE SAME REAR HOUSING had not sold many in a while. The decision was to quit buying those housings. However, according to my talks with QCC the 41188 was the one most often called for. Same was stated by both FOT and MOT......when I called several Hydraulic shops nationwide (stated much earlier in this thread multiple times) Tapered shaft failures average several a year at every shop I talked to.

Simone did not say this would be a limited run. But, she did state this price offering was only going to be for a short period, and only to those that had made contact over the past few months to support the possibility of returning all of the 10 to production. After those folks did or did not do whatever they are going to do, then from there the only way you would get one would be at full retail through a retail outlet.....my Comments above about the retail pricing was exact info I obtained from those that last sold those pumps.

I now have a fully rebuilt OE pump, and I also have another shaft and seal kit......But after this situation that could have been 100 times worse, Id really rather have a full pump in a box ready to go.....The fact that they had just 8 months earlier stopped production AND the fact we all did what we did, is the only reason they put them back into production....Had mine or anyone else's failure been later this year 2024, I feel they probably would not have made that same decision.

Its piece of mind.... To me its just like my spare starter, Alternator, waterpump, Battery charger, air bag, etc.....road insurance....just about any I mention can be bought, but will still take time to get. But as time passes, I have no doubt this pump will once again be hard to come by. I'll be set for the life of my ownership, and so will be the next owner of my coach one day. How many here have quickly dropped near this much coin to upgrade a fridge when there was really nothing wrong with the old Dometic other than they just wanted to do it. Id Rather spend that amount on something that would keep me rolling and put off a desired luxury to another time.

to each their own.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #254 – January 08, 2024, 12:07:52 am

Quote from: Cape Bretoner – January 07, 2024, 08:48:16 pm

I sent an email saying I would buy a pump and I will not go back on my word they are making them because we emailed QCC and said we would purchase them not just a certain amount I don't know how many emails they received they maybe running a 100 pumps I don't know the magic number to start reproducing these pumps I also sent a second email on Friday asking how I had to send my deposit the 40% and also asked about buying a seal kit and a shaft as a back up for either pump. I shall take the new pump and place it in a pail of oil to keep it in good shape it is a gear pump between the new and the old if something were to go wrong I should be able to make one pump i'll see how much room it takes up in the cargo area to see if I will carry it around with me its is more than $1450.00 for me because that is US currency I'm in Canada plus shipping you add another 40% with custom charges and brokerage fees I chalk it up as insurance so that I can continue to enjoy my coach . I have contacted and spoke to a hydraulic shop and they said seals aren't a problem they sell QCC PUMPS but if I had a seal kit they would use it re-Bushing it reseal it and run a test volume and pressure. I may go that route. But I feel I have to buy it. I told QCC I would.

Rick, as for a rebuild there are no bushings that can be replaced, they are machined in as part of the front/rear housing....Only the seals can be done as part of a rebuild....BUT pressure relief valves and Priority flow dividers can also be replaced.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #255 – January 08, 2024, 09:27:08 am

Couldn't the shaft integrity be checked with a DyeChem type product to look for defects, at least that would off some piece of mind

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #256 – January 08, 2024, 11:45:32 am

Quote from: fatheeler – January 08, 2024, 09:27:08 am

Couldn't the shaft integrity be checked with a DyeChem type product to look for defects, at least that would off some piece of mind

IF you already have a crack would surely show it, if that crack is outside of the housing as mine was.....I think the key issue is to make sure that your belt and pulley system stays in 100% great shape, as well as your fluid path stays in pristine shape, to hopefully avoid this problem. But just how much time on a failed tensioner causes a stress crack that could lead to eventual failure? or can the failure happen instantly in the right situation?.........Maybe the Tootsie pop owl knows......tapered key shafts are rarely if ever used on anything anymore for reasons such as this issue with these pumps....Ive worked on Auto AC systems for over 40 years, and long ago, commonly on pre 70's vehicles, tapered keyed shafts were very common on AC compressors, I had seen many identical failures in that application.....a shaft design just not well suited for lateral rotational pressures.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #257 – January 08, 2024, 12:57:49 pm

Quote from: mkc1962 – January 08, 2024, 12:05:39 am

Simone did not say this would be a limited run. But, she did state this price offering was only going to be for a short period, and only to those that had made contact over the past few months to support the possibility of returning all of the 10 to production. After those folks did or did not do whatever they are going to do, then from there the only way you would get one would be at full retail through a retail outlet.....my Comments above about the retail pricing was exact info I obtained from those that last sold those pumps.

I hope it is not too late. I just send the email.
I took a picture of mine, it is hard to tell but, I think it is the 41188

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #258 – January 08, 2024, 01:02:07 pm

Shouldn't be a problem propman she took my deposit this morning first thing and sent me a receipt!

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #259 – January 08, 2024, 01:35:00 pm

Hi everyone,
It seems that the 41188 is the issue at hand.
My understanding is they all use the same housing but are driven differently.
I have not seen much conversation in reference to the 41078 pump and whether it is also going to be manufactured again by QCC.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #260 – January 08, 2024, 02:09:00 pm

Quote from: Lt403 – January 08, 2024, 01:35:00 pm

Hi everyone,
It seems that the 41188 is the issue at hand.
My understanding is they all use the same housing but are driven differently.
I have not seen much conversation in reference to the 41078 pump and whether it is also going to be manufactured again by QCC.

I spoke to Simone today and asked if the same price would be for the 41078 and just now got a call from QCC and that they will email me the form to order the pump at the same price as the 41188.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #261 – January 08, 2024, 04:52:33 pm

I have a 2002 and do not have access to my coach... Can anyone verify that it has this pump 41188? SO I can get it ordered.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #262 – January 08, 2024, 09:50:06 pm

Paid deposit for mine today. Kinda hard to pull the trigger but the potential for this to be a near fatal problem made the decision easier.

Pump to be shipped in a plastic bag, after testing, and shipped in a padded container. Simone knows many of these will be "spare parts" so indicated she'll work to have exposed shaft coated with anti-rust as the rest of the housing is aluminum.

Normal warranty is 1 year but I asked how they'd handle warranty for those who simply hold this as "spare parts". Asked I they would consider 1 year from installation knowing that if that was allowed it might mean proof of professional installation. Haven't heard back.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #263 – January 08, 2024, 10:44:39 pm

Quote from: Lt403 – January 08, 2024, 01:35:00 pm

Hi everyone,
It seems that the 41188 is the issue at hand.
My understanding is they all use the same housing but are driven differently.
I have not seen much conversation in reference to the 41078 pump and whether it is also going to be manufactured again by QCC.

The 10 pumps that were discontinued January 2023 all shared ONLY the Rear housing. Their decision to no longer buy the rear housing at that time is what caused those 10 to go to NLA status.
The 41188 is the one that has the highest failure rate. But also the only one to have a unique tapered shaft.
Going forward, IF the time comes they decide again to no longer purchase those rear housings, then all 10 will again become No Longer Available,

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #264 – January 08, 2024, 10:46:56 pm

Quote from: floridarandy – January 08, 2024, 09:50:06 pm

Paid deposit for mine today. Kinda hard to pull the trigger but the potential for this to be a near fatal problem made the decision easier.

Pump to be shipped in a plastic bag, after testing, and shipped in a padded container. Simone knows many of these will be "spare parts" so indicated she'll work to have exposed shaft coated with anti-rust as the rest of the housing is aluminum.

Normal warranty is 1 year but I asked how they'd handle warranty for those who simply hold this as "spare parts". Asked I they would consider 1 year from installation knowing that if that was allowed it might mean proof of professional installation. Haven't heard back.

Have your new one installed when it arrives. Then take your old one, put a seal kit in it, drain it as much as you can, coat the shaft with some grease, then vacuum seal it in a vac bag.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #265 – January 08, 2024, 10:50:58 pm

Quote from: NevadaBornRvR – January 08, 2024, 04:52:33 pm

I have a 2002 and do not have access to my coach... Can anyone verify that it has this pump 41188? SO I can get it ordered.

Your going to have to physically identify the number on its housing. It was believed early on that the 320 only had the 41078, BUT someone came forward in this thread saying their 320 had the 41188.....BOTH were at status NLA. But no real History on any failures of the 41078, other that IF it ever did fail you also would not be able to get it.
Make sure what you have before you order.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #266 – January 09, 2024, 12:06:04 pm

Got under the coach this morning to find the number on my pump. Could not find the number but it is located under the compressor and is gear driven. Can I assume that I have the 41078 pump?

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #267 – January 09, 2024, 12:34:52 pm

Yes that is what I am ordering.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #268 – January 09, 2024, 02:04:00 pm

I just found an email from Simone. I will be getting her the deposit today.

Thank you MKC1962 for driving this through. I appreciate the effort.

-FT

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #269 – January 09, 2024, 02:40:37 pm

Just a heads up, not sure this was mentioned in the post anywhere. I called Foretravel to verify the pump I needed and they told me I have the #41078. Spoke with Bryan in parts and he said they hadn't heard any pricing or availability yet. I asked what the pump sold for from Foretravel and he said it was over $2000. Ive left a message with Simone.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #270 – January 09, 2024, 03:05:13 pm

Talked to Simone today and ordered a pump(41078). She is supposed to call me tomorrow with the address and shipping amount because I want to pay up and start the rehab and healing. In the last two weeks I've replaced the alternator, put in new house batteries, and had the steering gear box rebuilt. I've had about all the fun I can stand. I kissed the coach twice and Marilyn once and told them everything is gonna be okay......... but it sure is fun.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #271 – January 10, 2024, 12:42:58 pm

I have a 2004 U270 with. An 8.9L Cummins ISL I spent well over 2 hours scrubbing and wiping with degreaser and shining a bright light on every surface looking for the 41188#. Could never find an actual part #. Found the other numbers that are not the pump #. I am convinced that they didn't stamp mine for whatever reason I could be wrong. I called Foretravel parts with my build number and Brad told me he shows 41188 for my coach. He said he has had a lot of calls asking the same thing. He was very polite and helpful, although I'm sure he's tired of it. My wife is ordering the pump today. It feels weird paying this much for something I may never have needed. Better safe than sorry. Thank you Mike for the countless hours you have spent working on this. You are a testament to what this forum is all about. Tom from Ok

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #272 – January 10, 2024, 02:53:20 pm

Yesterday, I had a conversation with our local diesel mechanic and I asked if he had any experience with the gear driven hydraulic pump on an m-11. He told me maybe 2 or 3 a year and they are hard to come by even on the salvage market and also over priced. I would also like to commend Mike on bringing this issue into focus. This was also a group effort that he did all he could to lead us through........ thanks.

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #273 – January 10, 2024, 11:34:02 pm

With issue of pump(s) availability being resolved through all the hard work of one of our members. If you have a 41188 pump with a tapered shaft and are ordering a new pump, you may want to think about the pulley, adapter, and nut. When the shaft breaks the broken shaft pulley and adapter may go to parts unknown, without them a new pump doesn't help. The pulley it's self is a Cummins 3046206, the adapter is supposedly a FT part # P38910. As of 3 weeks ago they had one in stock. With that said I doubt FT had that part custom made. More research required!

Re: Hydraulic pump Failed ALL FORETRAVEL OWNERS SHOULD READ

Reply #274 – January 11, 2024, 08:14:32 am

To order the pump: Here are Simone's contact details:

Simone Morris | Senior Product Sales Engineer
+1-708-887-6282| simone@qccorp.com

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